From nobody Thu Nov 02 02:41:04 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4SLSmf4Dd9z4ygCr for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2023 02:41:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [IPv6:2001:19f0:7400:8808:123::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4SLSmf1Drlz3KHM; Thu, 2 Nov 2023 02:41:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Catflap-Envelope-From: Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [209.250.224.51]) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 3A22f49H042182; Thu, 2 Nov 2023 02:41:04 GMT (envelope-from jamie@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net) Received: (from jamie@localhost) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id 3A22f4o3042181; Thu, 2 Nov 2023 02:41:04 GMT (envelope-from jamie) From: Jamie Landeg-Jones Message-Id: <202311020241.3A22f4o3042181@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2023 02:41:04 +0000 Organization: Dyslexic Fish To: steffen@sdaoden.eu, jamie@catflap.org Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, dickey@his.com, bapt@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Freebsd 14+ -- tcsh incompatible with terminfo References: <202310312245.39VMjNJB080965@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> <202310312259.39VMxm6W081150@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> <202311010349.3A13nX1M094463@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> <20231101220247.HGrrB%steffen@sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: <20231101220247.HGrrB%steffen@sdaoden.eu> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.4 7/29/08 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [209.250.224.51]); Thu, 02 Nov 2023 02:41:04 +0000 (GMT) X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:2001:19f0:7400::/38, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4SLSmf1Drlz3KHM Steffen Nurpmeso wrote: > Why? > (That is to say: why -- if it is a *real* termcap? If it is only > a translation layer to terminfo, i am with you. But otherwise > not, i think a real termcap is much, much smaller, while offering > anything a (simple) console program needs.) > That is not to talk small the efforts of Mr. Dickey. But for > example the mailer i maintain *can* directly use BSD termcap if so > desired, and it works just nice. I agree that termcap does most of what we need already, so my main reason is that there are 2 different systems in use to do the same job, which is annoying. (FreeBSD doesn't exist in a vacuum) As terminfo exists, is supported, and has terminal entries that our termcap doesn't have, it seems to be better to switch to that. I'm sure it would mean less maintenance for the FreeBSD committers too. If terminfo didn't exist, I'd live with termcap. There are also benefits to terminfo: https://invisible-island.net/ncurses/ncurses.faq.html#extended_term We don't even run with a "proper" termcap anyway! "The base system's terminal database is referred to as “termcap.db” but is actually an ncurses terminfo hashed database." - https://invisible-island.net/ncurses/ncurses.faq.html#what_platforms So, yeah, despite Mr Dicky's success in making working with both as seamless as possible ,it would still just be nice to not have to deal with 2 different standards, that's all. "setaf or AF, that is the question." Cheers, Jamie