From nobody Wed May 31 19:30:26 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4QWfW54Wg0z4XSwG for ; Wed, 31 May 2023 19:30:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from garyj@gmx.de) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.gmx.net", Issuer "Telekom Security ServerID OV Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4QWfW50rn5z3Nr0 for ; Wed, 31 May 2023 19:30:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from garyj@gmx.de) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1685561434; i=garyj@gmx.de; bh=/SdHu9Rf1alSBTlk5lKCHN0qAkUkaLU5OWBmKxqsMi0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Reply-To; b=PedytMiTiNg2QfjZWIHJ5YYIguB0E144DgmZ83KzlDEe/9w4BTYDVfbfuhWqHIlip SimbNP2tBVwA/W/BUweSg7Bn4DjcjzC4KSWdSJKGAhbz9B5ChvCjuz1IBqT2PCtQ8I jvccs84B0GoTcZevimNJwVaMc2AR6hGc96uHvwnrfNx+dcOPC2H7sQVrCLWiwVmqdV fa9WDdroNI/vArJ9vUNAZrIK73JnoAupSrv1bgCxzC0qUeD8klqq6ZyL6gzF0vbGo7 a4G7UKZIXTJP6SHORLW/5yCsTh9G0TvqSx11ZLSCz2a/rlS340q/a2N26cstQg07QX pbKvH7DRetkAQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from ernst.home ([91.59.239.47]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N4QsY-1qBUpY0S1u-011Pvt; Wed, 31 May 2023 21:30:34 +0200 Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 19:30:26 +0000 From: Gary Jennejohn To: Warner Losh Cc: FreeBSD User , FreeBSD CURRENT Subject: Re: WITH_BEARSSL: -8112 bytes available Message-ID: <20230531213026.275c4eaf@ernst.home> In-Reply-To: References: <20230529105854.1903226d@thor.intern.walstatt.dynvpn.de> Reply-To: garyj@gmx.de X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.19.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.0) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:TLyvQpLavZDJ1u7I6/UNTtDBwvAq1u1qrf6KsulbFXV2yXioXID m5CxQa5ZAJ1k1mOYbbM9lnD6A8Qa3fC+cwCi8dAYvhZrnfQRc8G+lKjnAZcKXg+41sZuK9j so3JY190j9m1a49TMGeR8maTOLMstvQOhWGwP5/HILh9Gqd0zVHDfR48aEEnFV6ASVsKCQG om6YykLd1SKSDr24Ve3Mg== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:fcGmbVCyyYc=;1gVWIHtgRR6Gt/nl1gTtn9UoR1/ dO4jAJJSLHwilMW8Ec6BxhV6HcQgaoO100C8rRShyLFAjtIbyGsLA2m2zDV3T7C8b0s+8ra+q KHvB3GPaoA/jnMc3o4UhsTlYtkEuct8CSpMKA3CDbrFnOrULsc3eIbyR6ED+Kk8XeQ2MfDvje YEnRaJjJ7/HEGx5MHniOdVm6etcXpy9PJ+lR6/olMyHMGpMBj2gTPhmOFD1LLMOeXmC7rKG02 o9QbXQK2zGhIxAo1aLdldJj7fbj/1gYXwnbRBAOX3HAnl9FRJdoi+fHXC0Nn+zAfAWygKWc5Q /XJ5lSorNFqlmXXm95GhK0Ope4ljW/X89HZY4Fdo0LOpXYh7psBJSXihf321mq+7NfV+zMrFi I5slH/Lodj7gy0227466d0duri/jp0xIfqoCvY8JTmDTIZKke5iBvKNoi+IdPtR1k/An9aUx4 Iw91VTWSM1bRsVw8qUXIw2adKdV3OjAIBXHADKzQwTR9sF58w3uSZ29Z0sbYBHmcJnx+NWiQn 1RhC6/CzIM3WSSEA/D9COadr48ktmjp+xLjj9IgZKFlIgDAtCKjh8sj/8UKHtrFxbFPMzoRDE ZZLQAfkBtn658ZDgCqNqv6A/ISXZOr6qqDkhI7Q6zQEA40SQ79Ac/7BGnay/lP3ZQw8dy9TeT XlEmquPu79f6QoWyXHZD8h0Mn3aR24/BwcOa3l9GKdYQTe8IZjX3P/jYsShdVV4fsdLhhFdde JlbaihiZOMp0FhxJC0uChiSI4wePcNe9Kopd7O8by4gcSJLk60XG8DcnB0FBh3WianWG6N8eM UDyVs4pcAtmSnKyUKHOVhURJVCmVdUF3qOPlY3+fhXcrojSTB8nFEOmYxcbwgVJPjetmT33Hx qAxDlqHenMUanoCjAfCvjzWzM33n1B4Lptse8EBYQhVuPx/al5/6WAqebVLNJ5XcB4SNaqSfW OHOVtQYNZoMW9Vljr4VtBLe5m2U= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4QWfW50rn5z3Nr0 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Wed, 31 May 2023 12:15:12 -0600 Warner Losh wrote: [SNIP irrelevant text] > And no, I really do not want to support 'loadable modules'. BIOS booting= is > on the way out, and people > that want to do complex stuff in the boot loader will simply have to do > that in UEFI or maybe kboot/LinuxBoot. So, what exactly does "BIOS booting is on the way out" mean? I have four computers which use BIOS booting. Three are too old to support UEFI and the other one I simply set to BIOS booting out of habit. The only computer I have which uses UEFI is a laptop which was already set up to use UEFI and I was too lazy to change it. > There's low RoI on adding this complexity, imho. We'd be better off, imh= o, > making things like the graphics > console optional since the fonts and code for that free up about 30k in > stupid experiments that I've done > (it's hard since vidconsole has a lot of calls into the graphics system > that aren't optional and easy to disable, > so I've had to do hack and slash to produce a super ugly result that is > only suggestive of the final savings): > -rw-r--r-- 1 imp imp 352256 May 31 12:04 loader_simp > I don't know if I slashed too much, or not enough since the code is rath= er > hard to separate out, so if you > really wanted to go down this path, it would take a lot of work and pati= ent > understanding to make it so with > the low end of savings 20k and the high end on the order of maybe 40k. > > There's likely other ways to conserve space. We've not had space issues > with loader, et al, in the past, > so it's not well setup for subsetting. Though the different filesystem > support might also net you a fair amount: > LOADER_NET_SUPPORT?=3D yes > LOADER_NFS_SUPPORT?=3D yes > LOADER_TFTP_SUPPORT?=3D yes > LOADER_CD9660_SUPPORT?=3D yes > LOADER_EXT2FS_SUPPORT?=3D yes > LOADER_MSDOS_SUPPORT?=3D yes > LOADER_UFS_SUPPORT?=3D yes > LOADER_GZIP_SUPPORT?=3D yes > LOADER_BZIP2_SUPPORT?=3D yes > as would compiling w/o ZFS, which uses its own method (eg > WITHOUT_LOADER_ZFS). Tuning the loader > at this level does start to get into the weeds a bit, but can offer ~40k > savings turning off all but NET and UFS: > -rw-r--r-- 1 imp imp 344064 May 31 12:11 loader_simp > you get even about ~100k when you disable ZFS support with > -DWITHOUT_LOADER_ZFS: > -rw-r--r-- 1 imp imp 241664 May 31 12:12 loader_simp > (both of these are with the graphics console enabled without the silly > hacks to see how much that takes up). > Without the extras and ZFS, you might have bearssl and lua together even= ... > > Hope this helps. > This is interesting information. =2D- Gary Jennejohn