From nobody Thu Aug 17 04:40:51 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4RRC4j0Jp9z4qBPT for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 04:41:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x12f.google.com (mail-lf1-x12f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4RRC4h48mPz3QK2 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 04:41:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-lf1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-4fe7e67cc77so11883098e87.2 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2023 21:41:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20221208.gappssmtp.com; s=20221208; t=1692247263; x=1692852063; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ajkmVda08kMSfR+3kYJXeyJyXunY1epZ8DmIz0bZe0s=; b=KrS6e5LI0Uw4U2tlq/T4aDD02BGjFD++0JxTJKofjP1DFGj5k308b2gXjmN7wF9eaf buSkxN7bDolfDNGLcZES+AVLyZHMt1hlSNsp7o3LMg5v1kTm0DrJs+fiiOXbmE1Woky4 pDmgknRDxv2I0SdE0xtPE5oyMqv+mbG9dkzn8Clih+oK4reZ0Zbtw/4RvkAhyOF1wO1m pltK2OlCZWMAnlCKYJle1i9CvcMG8fZfx/D+ozHmAPoYgXawctk2zEZsTIZWA5KDHX5f 5LPQzhBJbmkN2TemDgdTUsWvrgQtz17tSVKqjELNRdYCNvwCHxbgTQJ1br7Dxn6nE1mu HGHA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1692247263; x=1692852063; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=ajkmVda08kMSfR+3kYJXeyJyXunY1epZ8DmIz0bZe0s=; b=Qr/qdoaA8UoExeIRLLHGffsnvCn5wUQPF1Y3S/pA5vvz31WRPPQEbp56vDcnETc9eB 3cNR231loVUDzLR2kB/l/RulN+69Pk8BVRIWqgzA7HbhDjsjmP8vMaEeZyDKDYAg2qkJ rpEu++LpxDY9uB0d/FDxp4uoFLr+q/JFPCXZVX8O+ON0IgbLJeEy0ab1I+8Hnw+J8oSr qsXpBr8HF5Pann2wTTi6cP+1vt1uJMcqjl3iOxRtlmQxqL393CqsZZ8mAAUziOU8ksuA XnsUTvKX6Q05sCGLdY22Dp+kiXfKckv24HkW+m62pvBDZob+oTI65HctsXd9lDIuN9rE WNSw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxKDSMxsqG1E4O3YyAPRZ2ydB6ob707EuFTmNlPkJEq3vbynek8 SU/u/WVybfQm563aftmQw8l/YJGZy7BLGUe0PChyrg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEa+ZMYeokeJyNs/ozgrFvsG5MVYBZY87EJA/nIGNkNhCAEHsZOGGn6u8uYK7f6gPXMr3vwjtG7bEyP5XQUVK0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:b83:b0:4fb:caed:95c3 with SMTP id b3-20020a0565120b8300b004fbcaed95c3mr3702396lfv.53.1692247262715; Wed, 16 Aug 2023 21:41:02 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230816040257.A397366@slippy.cwsent.com> <20230816161057.f8c6a3b4ebe9c672d920811e@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <22dd3552-480b-05da-76d7-dfbe2cb03110@blastwave.org> <896a3247-1a60-fe7a-674e-92ae511b41aa@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2023 22:40:51 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Defaulting serial communication to 115200 bps for FreeBSD 14 To: Dennis Clarke Cc: Alexander Motin , FreeBSD Current Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f77f430603170430" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4RRC4h48mPz3QK2 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] --000000000000f77f430603170430 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Aug 16, 2023, 9:38 PM Dennis Clarke wrote: > On 8/16/23 22:28, Alexander Motin wrote: > > On 16.08.2023 18:14, Dennis Clarke wrote: > >> The default serial communications config on most telecom equipment that > >> I have seen ( in the last forty years ) defaults to 9600 8n1. If people > >> want something faster from FreeBSD then do the trivial : > >> > >> set comconsole_speed="115200" > >> set console="comconsole" > >> > >> Is that not trivial enough? > > > > Except it is not a telecom equipment 40 years ago. Even at 115200 that > > I routinely use on my development systems I feel serial console output > > affects verbose boot time and kernel console debugging output. I also > > have BIOS console redirection enabled on my systems, and I believe the > > default there is also 115200, and even that is pretty slow. I see no > > point to stay compatible if it is unusable. > > > > You seem to be missing the point. > > You need to make a configuration choice. You. Not the world. You. > > Edit your /boot/loader.conf and put in the lines above. > > Then be happy. > > -- > Dennis Clarke > RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC > UNIX and Linux spoken > GreyBeard and suspenders optional > > PS: a recent CISCO ASA fireware defaults to 9600 8n1. Same as a lot of > equipment. > Yes. Some tiny number of things has that as a default, an even larger number of things have a default of 115200 or even faster. And have had that default since the 90s. The whole point of defaults is that they reflect the needs of the most people. FreeBSD's defaults were already starting to be dated in 1.0... today almost everyone changes the defaults to the new value we are advocating. This is to make FreeBSD more useful out of the box to more people. To turn your argument around: people wanting the old defaults can configure their systems easily enough. If we look purely at the numbers, vastly fewer people withh be inconvenienced at 115200 than at 9600. People can still use 9600... that's likely never going away... this is just a more sensible default. Warner > --000000000000f77f430603170430 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Aug 16, 2023, 9:38 PM Dennis Clarke <dclarke@blastwave.org> wrote:
=
On 8/16/23 22:28, Alexander Motin wrot= e:
> On 16.08.2023 18:14, Dennis Clarke wrote:
>> The default serial communications config on most telecom equipment= that
>> I have seen ( in the last forty years ) defaults to 9600 8n1. If p= eople
>> want something faster from FreeBSD then do the trivial :
>>
>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 set comconsole_speed=3D"115200"=
>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 set console=3D"comconsole"
>>
>> Is that not trivial enough?
>
> Except it is not a telecom equipment 40 years ago.=C2=A0 Even at 11520= 0 that
> I routinely use on my development systems I feel serial console output=
> affects verbose boot time and kernel console debugging output.=C2=A0 I= also
> have BIOS console redirection enabled on my systems, and I believe the=
> default there is also 115200, and even that is pretty slow.=C2=A0 I se= e no
> point to stay compatible if it is unusable.
>

You seem to be missing the point.

You need to make a configuration choice. You. Not the world. You.

Edit your /boot/loader.conf and put in the lines above.

Then be happy.

--
Dennis Clarke
RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC
UNIX and Linux spoken
GreyBeard and suspenders optional

PS: a recent CISCO ASA fireware defaults to 9600 8n1. Same as a lot of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0equipment.

Yes. Some tiny number of things has that as a= default, an even larger number of things have a default of 115200 or even = faster. And have had that default since the 90s. The whole point of default= s is that they reflect the needs of the most people. FreeBSD's defaults= were already starting to be dated in 1.0...=C2=A0 today almost everyone ch= anges the defaults to the new value we are advocating. This is to make Free= BSD more useful out of the box to more people. To turn your argument around= : people wanting the old defaults can configure their systems easily enough= . If we look purely at the numbers, vastly fewer people withh be inconvenie= nced at 115200 than at 9600. People can still use 9600... that's likely= never going away... this is just a more sensible default.=C2=A0

Warner
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