From nobody Wed Aug 09 21:32:14 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4RLjw54qvyz4mKQw for ; Wed, 9 Aug 2023 21:33:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4RLjw33cvpz4FhH for ; Wed, 9 Aug 2023 21:33:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp has no SPF policy when checking 153.125.133.21) smtp.mailfrom=junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp; dmarc=none Received: from kalamity.joker.local (123-1-88-210.area1b.commufa.jp [123.1.88.210]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.16.1/8.16.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 379LWEaK057204; Thu, 10 Aug 2023 06:32:15 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 06:32:14 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: David Wolfskill Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Has the update procedure changed? Message-Id: <20230810063214.1b694140e7c284e51154fe35@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: <7A0E604D-EF40-4F10-B597-F1F076507192@gmail.com> <20230809213822.950a3c337ec86c102dcbd235@dec.sakura.ne.jp> Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.2) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.41 / 15.00]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.92)[-0.919]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sakura.ne.jp]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4RLjw33cvpz4FhH On Wed, 9 Aug 2023 05:50:05 -0700 David Wolfskill wrote: > On Wed, Aug 09, 2023 at 09:38:22PM +0900, Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > > ... > > > > Please correct me if I'm missing something. > > I use source update for years and not using bsdinstall nor > > freebsd-update. > > > > Does bsdinstall (and/or freebsd-update) create the first current tree > > for etcupdate, if not yet exists? > > > > This would be most confusing and harmful point of etcupdate. > > When I first tried etcupdate, I didn't noticed that I needed > > `etcupdate extract -B` BEFORE UPDATING src tree. > > Without this, etcupdate cannot detect what should be updated, even if a > > plenty of updates are required. > > > > At the moment, I must use mergemaster, and after that, `etcupdate > > extract -B` for next run. > > > > I think bsdinstall can create current tree, which is turned over to old > > tree on actual run, for etcupdate. > > So do freebsd-update. It would be able to create current tree JUST > > BEFORE INSTALLING UPDATE. > > > > I was helped by mergemaster, but after it completely retires, features > > above should be mandatory. > > .... > > TL;DR: Please see the "Bootstrapping" section of etcupdate(8). I know. ;-) I'm using etcupdate when it first MFC'ed to latest stable branch ATM, and bitten at the first time. Anyone not familiar with etcupdate would bitten by forgotton bootstrapping. :-( > Details: I have been doing source-based updates of FreeBSD since around > 1999. As such, I used mergemaster for a long time, and got used to it. > > With the switch to git, the $FreeBSD$ lines in config files became ... > well, misleading noise. And since mergemaster tried to use them, that > didn't work very well. This provided the incentive I needed to switch > to etcupdate. > > And... yeah; there was a "learning curve." And the "bootstrapping" bit > is necessary. But it has worked well for me since. Yes. But if bsdinstall and freebsd-update automatically bootstrap etcupdate if not yet done, newbies and casual users wouldn't be bitten. For source-based update users like us, *Bootstrapping section of man page should be near the top, for example, betweem DESCRIPTION and MODES section, not inside EXAMPLES section. *Also documented in UPDATING (or new document for common instructions) and handbook. should be needed. etcupdate cannot extract old tree from already-updated src. So anyone forgotton bootstrapping is forced to roll back src for bootstrapping and roll forward again BEFORE installworld, once mergemaster dissapears. > > Peace, > david > -- > David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org > Given Trump's claims about fairness in elections, his notion of a > "fair trial" is almost certainly at variance with objective reality. > > See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. -- Tomoaki AOKI