From nobody Fri Feb 04 11:19:55 2022 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12D6319ACE74 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2022 11:19:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4JqtNs6rNrz3mfg for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2022 11:19:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1643973598; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=APmRuFwVY5IcG30aoBtUdx6SW6S8MkSpZiLBKH2VWGY=; b=AKNpVV+Bne5M7hQEorhxhS7IfB6EPB/xSywWM5819DQox/QK9FrTOYYlbzszIpWnRQHuZm yIh3muax7z5Ow5PPTPTfhCK3wpHsTNQKoRm34sqKAsoJUdMmS5EiujW07+M3if+Br7M/7D 8SHbEQSSkfgeXqYJAS53jBKEHwCsoiZZoGYRwfFr/xWnD5UlXFd5IZbehQePJmTi5kqXWv NybK10nwiA7pKg/RT4PX/DRC93qfyneimd8pRbiLMFDx5mbmZUX4lg8LBV53D3KoFXp0fB KZmhFgl2c9ERb8541EZUbm+dIpABFABTMjD7gGu+uixVKL1T/KHuhknpLeSjWA== Received: from smtp.theravensnest.org (smtp.theravensnest.org [45.77.103.195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: theraven) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C21C82F966 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2022 11:19:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [192.168.1.202] (host86-134-184-31.range86-134.btcentralplus.com [86.134.184.31]) by smtp.theravensnest.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D8AA62EEF3 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2022 11:19:56 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 11:19:55 +0000 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.1 Subject: Re: Dragonfly Mail Agent (dma) in the base system Content-Language: en-GB To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <835dc887-6491-602c-7d71-d99309871126@siemens.com> From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: <835dc887-6491-602c-7d71-d99309871126@siemens.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1643973598; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=APmRuFwVY5IcG30aoBtUdx6SW6S8MkSpZiLBKH2VWGY=; b=kbrCw4u2P2wNETzuVdQiFYuM9OCGmwWgZhtm37iQopBBjrQAJ92UVjTquCsotfYMwZt12J Oju+WJv9iSXCFBJgESKSWn4at+3y+m85yEqKSeYzXQrtCWq2/S1oQZ7tijGOdT1o00698x cOe/1MStQNY0pgg3zo5VFM9Xd1DK2R9qptCgRRMxdgckJBHbbgDO7nERhTA+NNpaGVaAPt /7rEoQAKgOh+BztZoHsnjPePknvG5xDZ/NR12QFU+UM95+Pq1IkBYf/O7PtyOA3mduOzkd hXGftXG3v+XwQS/y+nq9t8yQClLv/PsD9/OYFgSNr+6DYiTaGcldqQE7CWEcjw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1643973598; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=uIARswE6LFMk8u0tP7C2FfK+jInON/CWSaf4OIJuG5cvxthDcZS/4slX8Xc8POQYIIG+1S AGIN0XIktYgrC3Oz+USXCxzoAv/sqOTeDKWQlY2PGCbSvI79eZz/CVabOTKlQeu7t71K0V cMxRJjff0X0HuenxZUfjjxYFzJBSg0rI5ZP1r1VLxhpT+Gm7/U5EFgs4OmRDfRScDhNwBf 75suJNsj+GfdVk6g0iqimHgayXqyul+FoWn4H/AZnlR8AvYaXj4/u2+IvFfO8l4xWrT++Q yIpdWwCSe1JyWXgi2HWeLg4rvLfcq8anzkeDxScQvwCXoHRTlm9d2auCaia4WQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 30/01/2022 14:01, michael.osipov@siemens.com wrote: > Sendmail: The biggest problem is that authentication strictly requires > Cyrus SASL, even for stupid ones like PLAIN/LOGIN, accourding to the > handbook you must recompile sendmail from base with Cyrus SASL from > ports to make this possible. A showstopper actually, for two reasons: > 1. I don't like mixing base and ports, it just creates a messy system. > 2. While this may work with hosts, when you have jails running off a > RELEASE in Bastille this obviously will not work. > Not going to work with sendmail easily. I think this is a critical point: at the moment, we're paying the cost of having a full-featured MTA in the base system, without getting most of the benefits. Around 2003, I hit exactly this problem. The instructions after update were slightly terrifying: after each base system or ports update, I potentially had to recompile my own sendmail. There's now a sendmail+sasl configuration in packages and so I was incredibly happy to be able to move away from using sendmail in base. Now I have two copies of sendmail on some machines. The one in ports, for compatibility reasons, looks for config in /etc/mail not under LOCALBASE, which is a layering violation and means that freebsd-update periodically tries to corrupt my config. I have no strong opinions about where we move to, but moving *from* shipping a limited sendmail in base would make me very happy. David