From nobody Thu Sep 23 13:16:09 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0E7517C34C9; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 13:16:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from land.berklix.org (land.berklix.org [144.76.10.75]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4HFbK25Kjtz4dws; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 13:16:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p4fc4cd5f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.196.205.95]) (authenticated bits=128) by land.berklix.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPA id 18NDGFre000806; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 13:16:15 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id 18NDG9ZX003737; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:16:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 18NDG9jN004992; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:16:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <202109231316.18NDG9jN004992@fire.js.berklix.net> To: gljennjohn@gmail.com cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Shawn Webb , John Baldwin , Baptiste Daroussin , current@FreeBSD.org, arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com/jhs/ User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-From: http://www.berklix.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message "Wed, 22 Sep 2021 19:47:50 +0200." <20210922194750.55af63d5@ernst.home> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4990.1632402969.1@fire.js.berklix.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:16:09 +0200 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFbK25Kjtz4dws X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jhs@berklix.com has no SPF policy when checking 144.76.10.75) smtp.mailfrom=jhs@berklix.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.03 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:144.76.0.0/16, country:DE]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[79.196.205.95:received]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[jhs]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[berklix.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.97)[0.966]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Gary Jennejohn wrote: > On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:52:53 -0700 (PDT) > "Rodney W. Grimes" wrote: > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: = > > > > On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: = > > > > > Hello, > > > > > = > > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > > > = > > > > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh ca= n be confusing > > > > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a = bourne shell > > > > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > > > > = > > > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user frien= dly in > > > > > interactive mode: > > > > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > > > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default li= ke other shells > > > > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respe= ct $EDITOR) > > > > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > > = > > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would li= ke to propose to > > > > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE= (not MFCed) > > > > > = > > > > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I wil= l make this > > > > > proposal happen. > > > > > = > > > > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BA= SE! = > > > > = > > > > I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing '= toor' from the > > > > default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would= probably > > > > prefer removing it outright.) = > > > = > > > HardenedBSD recently removed toor. No one has complained (yet?). A > > > small Twitter poll[0] showed that 85% of people who responded do not > > > use toor. = > > = > > A truely disastisified customer does not complain, they simply > > go some place else for there products. Be carefull in what you > > believe silence to be saying. > > = > > I use toor on every FreeBSD machine as the root login using bash. > I never log in as root. Toor has been an occasional lifeline during re-build dissters. Need root & toor to have different executables, & home directories & passwords, & no environment vars on one etc. > But removing it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I'd just put it > back into /etc/passwd. Ditto. `One Best Tool' debates can consume time. Best keep time for other things, ( eg I've an interesting regression to ch= ase: 12.2-RELEASE OK, but 12.2-STABLE & 13.0-RELEASE Generic kernels panic on boot & wont produce a /var/crash/vmcore.2 & won't drop into DDB ). Cheers, -- = Julian Stacey http://berklix.com/jhs/ http://stolenvotes.uk