From nobody Thu Sep 23 07:46:53 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 409C717C77C9; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 07:47:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=x/NU=ON=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (elsa.codelab.cz [94.124.105.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFS130gxqz3KpF; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 07:47:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=x/NU=ON=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id E78A428416; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:46:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from illbsd.quip.test (ip-78-45-215-131.net.upcbroadband.cz [78.45.215.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DE38528411; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:46:53 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root To: grarpamp , current@freebsd.org Cc: arch@freebsd.org References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> From: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> Message-ID: <3f7d159b-9f32-e88c-360e-35f8c4b12e23@quip.cz> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:46:53 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFS130gxqz3KpF X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 22/09/2021 22:50, grarpamp wrote: >> propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE > > Make it so. > > The whole rest of rc, pkg, base scripts and subsystems use a lot of sh, not csh. > So this is a good compatibility, consistancy, and gotcha-removing update, > needed for decades. > > Even "bash" is a majority spoken shell in Linux/world, helping > make crossovers if BSD becomes a bit more bash-like. More bashism and linuxism in BSD world, you are waking the devil. > The bsd sh feature updates are filling useful/needed capability gaps. Moving to sh without maintain the same history search behavior (start of the command and Up & Down arrows) are like cutting one leg. The (t)csh is what I really like on every FreeBSD machine. Never seen good configured bash (prompt + history search) on any other OS I ever visited. Not saying it is not possible but if FreeBSD will switch default shell to something else I expect to do it the way that it is more user friendly and powerful than on other OSes where everything is leaved to "users can customize it". Current state of sh behavior is really that "bad" way. If you want to catch users on sh, do it better, please! > "csh considered harmful" > > toor needs to go as part of simple cruft removal for a cleaner base, > else you would have to add zoor, koor, boor, toor, etc. No no no no! > > Nobody leave FreeBSD just to get run csh on their windows command prompt ;) > > Users are always free to customize local installs as desired. It cuts both ways. If users are free to customize they can switch from current default csh to sh and no change in base is needed. Miroslav Lachman