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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 9104c5cce45e04e1636bf7bfbb521045; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 08:31:35 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to ARM processors List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arm List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arm@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51\)) Subject: Re: Beaglebone Black/Green/Blue support (volunteering) From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <4BEC1DC0-7528-4B4B-8FD0-254BD7BF1BD9@ketas.si.pri.ee> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2024 01:31:25 -0700 Cc: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8597295C-BC33-4F76-AF45-41753D3E47BA@yahoo.com> References: <276f57f2-5194-cad1-d859-e49b2bce2580@pobox.com> <69E08B38-7388-46A6-8864-20074BFFF8F4@yahoo.com> <88d2cc76-f980-600e-0da4-2fa1070d76ba@pobox.com> <6b848423-bdd1-b215-889a-1f07e5064412@pobox.com> <4BEC1DC0-7528-4B4B-8FD0-254BD7BF1BD9@ketas.si.pri.ee> To: Sulev-Madis Silber X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51) X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X7sLz456Mz4M28 On Sep 17, 2024, at 23:44, Sulev-Madis Silber = wrote: > i'm looking forward to replace current from 2014 in my one singular = bbb with newer one >=20 > is it only because fdt? i proposed to just use own fdt like earlier = but people told sorry can't do that. to that i was like how about i = supply my own fdt then? >=20 > then, why is fdt such a shitshow anyway? or it works in linux as is, = or? or it changes often? to my still limited knowledge that just defines = a hw, why would it change, as hw doesn't? My understanding of the operating principles here: The FDT provides a mapping between the Linux kernel's way of working and the hardware. When Linux changes how the kernel works the Linux FDT tracks the redesign. The two are not independent. In essence, the FDT is a form of kernel data structure. Multiple distinct FDT's can describe the exact same hardware: the hardware of itself does not uniquely determine the FDT for that hardware. Some contexts have fairly stable Linux kernel designs and, so, fairly stable FDTs; others do not. So, one can get evidence about some of what is being significantly reworked over time in the Linux kernel via the seeing the repeated FDT restructuring over the time frame. This contrasts with other context's FDTs being stable because there is a lack of such Linux kernel driven changes to that FDT. So, when FreeBSD sees the linux FDT has changed and has to adjust for such, it is actually tracking some consequences of the Linux kernel rework activity that changed both the Linux kernel and the FDT. At least, that is my understanding. FreeBSD does not have the resources to develop and use its own FDT's overall and simply chooses to track an upstream source of a context's FDT(s) instead. In the case of RPi*'s, it is not mainline Linux FDT's that are tracked --but the FDT's are from a Linux kernel context. (I'm not sure if RPi*'s have the only non-main-line FDT's used.) > so am i correct, we throw that thing out just because it's super hard = to use fdt from linux? . . . How difficult or messy or frequently FDT tracking is involved varies widely across the various contexts. It is not a uniform global property for all Linux FDTs. . . . > while there, how do all the people dev for armv7? Many aarch64 systems can execute armv7 code and so serve as a means of building armv7 code with armv7 tools (armv7 jail's, armv7 chroot's, possibly even lib32). Such is generally more reliable and less time consuming than use of qemu for "cross-activity" many context that try to use qemu. The official FreeBSD armv7 packages are built on aarch64 systems that can execute armv7 code. This uses armv7 poudriere jails. It works a lot better than the historical qemu use on amd64 before these ampere[123] aarch64 machines were available (or were not yet used this way). Some folks use the likes of Windows Dev Kit 2023's or RPi4B's or RPi5B's for such activities of their own. (Apple M1/M2/M3/M4 do not support armv7 code and so are not example contexts for doing these sorts of things without qemu involved.) =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com