From nobody Wed Sep 18 06:44:06 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-arm@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4X7pz8256mz5WLXS for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:44:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-arm-freebsd-org097@ketas.si.pri.ee) Received: from green.sau.si.pri.ee (d004-fea2-0bff-021e-13e8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee [IPv6:2001:7d0:8437:13e8:21e:bff:fea2:d004]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4X7pz673STz43cb for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:44:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-arm-freebsd-org097@ketas.si.pri.ee) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=ketas.si.pri.ee header.s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096 header.b=S1i7BH81; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=ketas.si.pri.ee; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-arm-freebsd-org097@ketas.si.pri.ee designates 2001:7d0:8437:13e8:21e:bff:fea2:d004 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-arm-freebsd-org097@ketas.si.pri.ee X-Original-To: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ketas.si.pri.ee; s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096; t=1726641848; bh=cwQTd8r3IFjFiD7Lmd1xoaNlzDmG0Cy9F/QxeG8VlMI=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=S1i7BH81kjR3fn9ItavuqviYx/LhH8oHKBxV7bZB9mmln4sX4l898DrRwqeVSzANL Vq8VXb/jenRL4iVkg2Xk9mf9bN/CaKBUG4xoTmV8VLL4TfSMCq+gJnyRD+6gdRRE5h fh3BOLm0oGMLVPFU4Sgf4QpLhT2ydSUWF0jwANN4+d/693irGUJVoNWIUABxlYOEk2 KetY0bMZMjn1Oxc1QjT3QemxAe4Zx+sEZBdRwQAHM4dH7+eK8V6A+R9eVTM24f0Hkk r6rHro9HCgoGXOCE7bUBfd8kVyY+oFnhj/paM+VRGz/0meUXOZwLLP9Eu7dgvpw+TA Uk6EO6pUQ58KyqLa3ftj+seq9xEZUj1Gr5yiW4oLkkTT3KB+pepa/0pYJAnDiO7Fo3 doC+NrM9xSC1gYgxJF3FatrkSIlUTaN3//vwc4Tv5cbyfYZcXRS+Rugn0/+QXgvO0d /GgaJJE1iMlwW6vHdupG/N8WwBPNVfL7JdTG8rpL5WfkZbgdwL0Eakyp5cF1oKzwsL vskd2XGK8byWE8blOwB6QQlmmYUZkr2jkvkoKK0vf8mIrqAPjfG06R+Um8RcsJB9sj sgg7n3O8uVJule5V1n3N72syngbFZEaqyAKwHik9np/o6zXEcFZ2ySiWE4GJMB8Yym xMJKZiU3DZxQ9AKE9LhiIMCc= Received: from [IPv6:::1] (0114-0000-0000-0000-13c8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee [IPv6:2001:7d0:8437:13c8::114]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by forestgreen.jails.green.sau.si.pri.ee (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C46D6594439 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 09:44:07 +0300 (EEST) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2024 09:44:06 +0300 From: Sulev-Madis Silber To: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Beaglebone Black/Green/Blue support (volunteering) User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <276f57f2-5194-cad1-d859-e49b2bce2580@pobox.com> <69E08B38-7388-46A6-8864-20074BFFF8F4@yahoo.com> <88d2cc76-f980-600e-0da4-2fa1070d76ba@pobox.com> <6b848423-bdd1-b215-889a-1f07e5064412@pobox.com> Message-ID: <4BEC1DC0-7528-4B4B-8FD0-254BD7BF1BD9@ketas.si.pri.ee> List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to ARM processors List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arm List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arm@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.79 / 15.00]; HFILTER_HOSTNAME_5(3.00)[d004-fea2-0bff-021e-13e8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.89)[-0.887]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[ketas.si.pri.ee,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:7d0:8437:1300::/56]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[ketas.si.pri.ee:s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:3249, ipnet:2001:7d0::/32, country:EE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arm@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arm@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[ketas.si.pri.ee:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X7pz673STz43cb i'm looking forward to replace current from 2014 in my one singular bbb wit= h newer one is it only because fdt? i proposed to just use own fdt like earlier but pe= ople told sorry can't do that=2E to that i was like how about i supply my o= wn fdt then? then, why is fdt such a shitshow anyway? or it works in linux as is, or? o= r it changes often? to my still limited knowledge that just defines a hw, w= hy would it change, as hw doesn't? so am i correct, we throw that thing out just because it's super hard to u= se fdt from linux? whole armv7 32bit is bit weird too=2E looks like it's hanging on the edge = of trash can, along with whole 32bit, just to be waiting for to be pushed i= n=2E yet there are armv7 hw being sold=2E maybe even made still, can't be a= ll nos=2E like allwinner h3 i can understand the issues with 32bit but where's like good working 64bit= alternative=2E out of small hw, only raspberry pi? out of big hw, only arm= servers? i have h618 hw here, along with 13=2E* patches i obtained from forum, wait= ing for some tests=2E maybe someone else has interest in tiny recent arm hw= on fbsd while there, how do all the people dev for armv7? i use system qemu, but t= hat fails with any new current now=2E basically old current and old qemu bu= ilds ports=2E old qemu and new current doesn't boot=2E new qemu and new cur= rent doesn't boot=2E new qemu and old current doesn't build half a ports=2E= to be honest, old qemu and old qemu needs multiple tries to build some too= , funnily=2E i suspect mixes issues with qemu, fbsd and clang combination h= ere=2E not to mention that qemu is over 2000 times slower than c2d machine = on some tasks=2E yes, really, 2000 if embedded fbsd goes away, that would be a sad story=2E i'm actually curi= ous about using fbsd professionally=2E i know some others do too, but can't= figure out what hw should i choose where it actually stays supported? mayb= e i should wait for more standardized, less fragile arm platforms in the fu= ture? or maybe embedded is fragile by design? i currently look for hw simil= ar in performance of h3 but there could be others too, bit more powerful, m= aybe with video out, etc sad really, and all that existing hw seems to be supported by like single = person in fbsd=2E if anything happens, that hw is gone too somehow god i wish it would be as easy as with big machines=2E i386 is going but t= hat might be less of an issue (but i'm sure it's used too)=2E as amd64, eve= n old, is everywhere so any opinions with this arm situation? or whole embedded that is=2E fbsd contains lot of non server things=2E or = maybe they are server now=2E like wifi, bt, video=2E i wish it to stay unsure, i can't magically come up with bunch of usera and bunch of devs so= things stay healthy and i can also take and give advantage of this it's also super hard to maintain own code locally, etc=2E and embedded hw = tends to really like to stay=2E for over 10 years easily=2E i've seen many = embedded platforms appearing in fbsd and then quickly going out=2E while bi= g hw stays for, i mean, i've been using fbsd since v4=2E6, not that long, s= ome hw has been in for entire this time unsure what's other option here? use nbsd, use linux? god, some hw has bet= ter support on obsd=2E sad seems like fair bit of armv7 users are still there and i bet they also loo= k for 64bit extended support hw too=2E so how to get devs here too? i bet t= here are humans in this planet that are happy to dev for arm on fbsd enough= for it to work well