From nobody Tue Sep 06 21:41:47 2022 X-Original-To: freebsd-arm@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4MMf3w6xWkz4blPL for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2022 21:42:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=HFBQ=ZJ=klop.ws=ronald-lists@realworks.nl) Received: from smtp-relay-int.realworks.nl (smtp-relay-int.realworks.nl [194.109.157.24]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4MMf3v6PXVz3xJp for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2022 21:42:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=HFBQ=ZJ=klop.ws=ronald-lists@realworks.nl) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 23:41:47 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=klop.ws; s=rw2; t=1662500507; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to; bh=akiZ28KRadgp58ennafSVsj9t3fKmPIl2noqZQyPEJg=; b=TI3Eoc9cOZx4ILQka52CQdT8nLrWeYtZUeRGFdlm5P3YqwcmYpK5lCKvha7+/g5kcHR9y5 Yv2exPqmQMg0FOiLpUWOdpbgcrwFvaRPRZgD9F4LAiSERktzC0DqAwkd/KHiFtuLygxCGO D2C0zCgB4mw7U6HyjF/fBTTQGqvD+J53z6lVKRz3cu57Y/hKq20CzY89TguL5EN0WTSXDv XB4451dsycy7kIF5AZOTOV3p8laDfeujExnp0y4BkcvZg4oqTnzUaqRWaV5BjOqQbC4RaO i8fjJTA6NnFlFYLyBvDTGHJrf1hyJpTLEDBjMCmXNJiNMT5TfXw4KBs/todrig== From: Ronald Klop To: freebsd-arm , Warner Losh , Mark Millard Message-ID: <1098569247.12297.1662500507113@localhost> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: kernel update broke -current List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to ARM processors List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arm List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arm@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_12296_882797294.1662500507110" X-Mailer: Realworks (623.121) Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4MMf3v6PXVz3xJp X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=klop.ws header.s=rw2 header.b=TI3Eoc9c; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=klop.ws; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of "SRS0=HFBQ=ZJ=klop.ws=ronald-lists@realworks.nl" designates 194.109.157.24 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="SRS0=HFBQ=ZJ=klop.ws=ronald-lists@realworks.nl" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.20 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.996]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[klop.ws,quarantine]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[ronald-lists@klop.ws,SRS0=HFBQ=ZJ=klop.ws=ronald-lists@realworks.nl]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:194.109.157.0/24]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[klop.ws:s=rw2]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arm@freebsd.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[freebsd.org,bsdimp.com,yahoo.com]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[klop.ws:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; HAS_X_PRIO_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; ASN(0.00)[asn:3265, ipnet:194.109.0.0/16, country:NL]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[ronald-lists@klop.ws,SRS0=HFBQ=ZJ=klop.ws=ronald-lists@realworks.nl] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N ------=_Part_12296_882797294.1662500507110 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Van: Warner Losh Datum: 6 september 2022 18:13 Aan: Mark Millard CC: freebsd-arm Onderwerp: Re: kernel update broke -current >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 4:21 PM Mark Millard wrote: >=20 >> Warner Losh wrote on >> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 20:07:33 UTC : >>=20 >> > On Sun, Sep 4, 2022 at 4:51 PM void wrote: >> >=20 >> > > On Sun, Sep 04, 2022 at 07:31:59PM +0000, void wrote: >> > > > >> > > >On Sun, 4 Sep 2022, at 19:07, Warner Losh wrote: >> > > >> You need a newer boot loader... >> > > > >> > > >I was thinking - getting latest -current image, booting to it then >> > > >copying the contents of /boot from the image onto the mounted zpool= ... >> > > > >> > > >feasible? >> > > >> > > Seems only EFI/ needed replacing from a recent snapshot. I thought i= t might >> > > be all of /boot but I was wrong. Thank you Mark! >> > > >> >=20 >> > Yes. You'll need to update EFI/BOOT on your ESP. The rest of /boot is >> > updated >> > when you do an installworld. >>=20 >> One of the oddities of the update sequence instructions is >> the lack of coverage of the likes of: >>=20 >> Load Path: /efi=08oot=08ootaa64.efi >>=20 >> What step of the sequencing for the overall system update? >> When is such an update required? (Here the example would >> be: Before rebooting when the ZFS pool(s) possibly used to >> boot gain new features?) When is it not required to update >> the loader in the ESP (or analogous)? Even just knowing >> the stage at which one should do the update indicates some >> about when to figure out if an update is needed and so >> prompts to be ready. >=20 >=20 > Today: >=20 > make installworld installkernel > mount -t msdos /dev/ /boot/efi >=20 > and then one of three scenarios >=20 > (1) You have the old boot1.efi. This will *always* be in ESP:EFIBOOTBOOT$= {ARCH}.EFI. > (see uefi(8) for the values of ARCH). You can automatically detect this f= or most installations > that were done since about FreeBSD 12: > % sudo efivar | grep Boot1 > cfee69ad-a0de-47a9-93a8-f63106f8ae99-Boot1Path > cfee69ad-a0de-47a9-93a8-f63106f8ae99-Boot1Dev >=20 >=20 > In this case you would do: >=20 > % sudo cp /boot/boot1.efi /boot/efi/efi/boot/boot${ARCH}.efi and you are = done. >=20 > Please note: If your system was installed a long time ago, you should als= o check to see if > you have a LoaderPath variable set: > % sudo efivar --utf cfee69ad-a0de-47a9-93a8-f63106f8ae99-LoaderPath >=20 > /boot/loader.efi >=20 > When Boot1 isn't set and it is set to the above value (or something simil= ar), then you are > booting with a really old copy of boot1.efi. You will need to update it a= nd may need to arrange > for a larger ESP since FreeBSD's boot1.efifat was a tiny image that was h= ard to grow. Steal > space from swap for a larger ESP, etc. Documenting that is beyond the sco= pe of this email. >=20 > (2) You are booting with loader.efi and it is in the bug-compatibility pl= ace. Some UEFI BIOSes > don't respect or can't set BootXXXX variables set by efibootmgr(8). In th= at case, many people > are booting from the 'compatibiltiy' location for removable devices. This= will almost always be > a single boot scenario because you can't easily boot other systems like t= his (well, unless 'quit' > works from the OK prompt to go to the next one on the list, but I digress= ). You will see something like: >=20 > % sudo efivar --utf cfee69ad-a0de-47a9-93a8-f63106f8ae99-LoaderPath > cfee69ad-a0de-47a9-93a8-f63106f8ae99-LoaderPath > EFIBOOTBOOTX64.EFI > (or AA64) >=20 > when you are booting this way. In this case the update command is: >=20 > % sudo cp /boot/loader.efi /boot/efi/efi/boot/boot${ARCH}.efi >=20 > to upgrade. Some people may be doing this already on systems that can sup= port efibootmgr(8) and > they can of course upgrade to using that, though that's also beyond the s= cope of this email. >=20 > (3) You are booting on a working system with a FreeBSD installed by the b= oot loader, or some other > custom arrangement. In that case, you'll see something like: > sudo efivar --utf cfee69ad-a0de-47a9-93a8-f63106f8ae99-LoaderPath > cfee69ad-a0de-47a9-93a8-f63106f8ae99-LoaderPath > EFIFREEBSDLOADER.EFI >=20 > (or some other place for custom setups: I assume if you are doing that yo= u know enough to > update my instructions as appropriate). To update, you'd do >=20 > % sudo cp /boot/loader.efi /boot/efi/efi/freebsd/loader.efi >=20 > Automating all these cases is, needless to say, tricky. >=20 > =20 >> Part of the sequencing gets into having needed to do a >> installworld to have a from-same-build content replacement >> for the likes of /efi=08oot=08ootaa64.efi . So installkernel >> already done, a reboot already done, and an installworld >> having been done as well in order to have something to >> copy over. (There are no pointers to alternate places to >> get copies that I know of. One can find copies in the >> build tree when one builds from source locally. So waiting >> is not really required for that context.) >=20 >=20 > Yea, I have a branch that has an 'installboot' target that updates the bo= ot > loader regardless, but given the 50-odd combinations of ways we can > boot, it's a bit bogged down. > =20 >> This also make it seem that updating ZFS pool features >> should wait until after a system upgrade that spans both >> the loader and kernel being ready for the new features, >> even if compatibility with other systems is not a worry. >=20 >=20 > Yes. ALWAYS update your boot blocks before zpool update. > =20 >> Do any of the system upgrade instructions cover such >> relationships? Do any of the ZFS pool upgrade instructions >> cover such? Does zpool or the like suggest such issues >> when it reports there are new features that could be >> enabled? >=20 >=20 > See above. :) > =20 >> Part of what I expect happened here was contributed to by >> a lack of being prompted to even think about the relevant >> issues, leading to a pool feature upgrade that had not >> been prepared for. >=20 >=20 > Yea, so far 100% of the 'help, I upgraded and now the boot loader > can't see zfs pool' issues have been 'I didn't upgrade my loader.efi > properly after zpool upgrade.' It was mandatory when we had the > OpenZFS rebase, but it is also necessary every few OpenZFS > updates from upstream as nnew features are enabled. >=20 > I'd love for someone to add this information to the handbook, and I'd > happily review such an effort. I have time to do a brain dump, but not > to make it pretty / formatted for asciidoctor and won't for some time. >=20 > Warner > =20 >> =3D=3D=3D >> Mark Millard >> marklmi at yahoo.com >>=20 >=20 Interesting.=20 Does the loader pass a hint to the kernel about which loader was used to lo= ad the kernel? Regards, Ronald ------=_Part_12296_882797294.1662500507110 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Van: Warner Losh &l= t;imp@bsdimp.com>
Datum: 6 september 2022 18:13
<= strong>Aan: Mark Millard <marklmi@yahoo.com>
CC:<= /strong> freebsd-arm <freebsd-arm@freebsd.org>
Onderwerp:<= /strong> Re: kernel update broke -current



On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 4:21 PM Mark Millard <= marklmi@yahoo.com> wrote:
Warner Losh <imp_at_bsdimp.com> wrote on
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 20:07:33 UTC :

> On Sun, Sep 4, 2022 at 4:51 PM void <= void@f-m.fm> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Sep 04, 2022 at 07:31:59PM +0000, void wrote:
> > >
> > >On Sun, 4 Sep 2022, at 19:07, Warner Losh wrote:
> > >> You need a newer boot loader...
> > >
> > >I was thinking - getting latest -current image, booting to it= then
> > >copying the contents of /boot from the image onto the mounted= zpool ...
> > >
> > >feasible?
> >
> > Seems only EFI/ needed replacing from a recent snapshot. I though= t it might
> > be all of /boot but I was wrong. Thank you Mark!
> >
>
> Yes. You'll need to update EFI/BOOT on your ESP. The rest of /boot is<= br> > updated
> when you do an installworld.

One of the oddities of the update sequence instructions is
the lack of coverage of the likes of:

Load Path: /efiootootaa64.efi

What step of the sequencing for the overall system update?
When is such an update required? (Here the example would
be: Before rebooting when the ZFS pool(s) possibly used to
boot gain new features?) When is it not required to update
the loader in the ESP (or analogous)? Even just knowing
the stage at which one should do the update indicates some
about when to figure out if an update is needed and so
prompts to be ready.

Today:

=
make installworld installkernel
mount -t msdos /dev/<mumble-esp> /boot/efi<= /div>

an= d then one of three scenarios

<= div class=3D"do_not_remove">(1) You have the old boot1.efi. This will *alwa= ys* be in ESP:EFIBOOTBOOT${ARCH}.EFI.
(se= e uefi(8) for the values of ARCH). You can automatically detect this for mo= st installations
that were done since abo= ut FreeBSD 12:
% sudo efivar | grep Boot1=
cfee69ad-a0de-47a9-93a8-f63106f8ae99-Boo= t1Path
cfee69ad-a0de-47a9-93a8-f63106f8ae99-Boot1Dev

In this case you = would do:

% sudo cp /boot/boot1.efi /boot/efi/efi/boot/boot${ARCH}.efi and yo= u are done.

Please note: If your system was installed a long time ago, you sh= ould also check to see if
you have a Load= erPath variable set:
% sudo efivar --utf = cfee69ad-a0de-47a9-93a8-f63106f8ae99-LoaderPath
/boot/loader.efi

When Boot1 isn't set and it is set to the above v= alue (or something similar), then you are
booting with a really old copy of boot1.efi. You will need to update it an= d may need to arrange
for a larger ESP si= nce FreeBSD's boot1.efifat was a tiny image that was hard to grow. Steal
space from swap for a larger ESP, etc. Docu= menting that is beyond the scope of this email.

(2) You are booting with load= er.efi and it is in the bug-compatibility place. Some UEFI BIOSes
don't respect or can't set BootXXXX variables set = by efibootmgr(8). In that case, many people
are booting from the 'compatibiltiy' location for removable devices= . This will almost always be
a single boo= t scenario because you can't easily boot other systems like this (well, unl= ess 'quit'
works from the OK prompt to go= to the next one on the list, but I digress). You will see something like:<= /div>

% = sudo efivar --utf cfee69ad-a0de-47a9-93a8-f63106f8ae99-LoaderPath
cfee= 69ad-a0de-47a9-93a8-f63106f8ae99-LoaderPath
EFIBOOTBOOTX64.EFI
(or AA64)

when y= ou are booting this way. In this case the update command is:

% sudo cp /boot/loader.efi /boot/efi/efi/boot/boot${ARCH}.efi
=

to upgrade. Some people may be doing this already on syste= ms that can support efibootmgr(8) and
they can of course upgrade to using that, though that's also beyon= d the scope of this email.
(3) You are booting on a w= orking system with a FreeBSD installed by the boot loader, or some other
custom arrangement. In that cas= e, you'll see something like:
sudo efivar --utf cfee69ad-a0de-47a9-93a8-f63106f8ae99-LoaderPath
cfee6= 9ad-a0de-47a9-93a8-f63106f8ae99-LoaderPath
EFIFREEBSDLOADER.EFI

(or some other place for custom setups: I assume if you are d= oing that you know enough to
= update my instructions as appropriate). To update, you'd do

% sudo cp /boot/loader.efi /boot/efi/efi/freebsd/loader.efi

Automating all these cases is, needless to say, tricky.
 
Part of the sequencing gets into having needed to do a
installworld to have a from-same-build content replacement
for the likes of /efiootootaa64.efi . So installkernel
already done, a reboot already done, and an installworld
having been done as well in order to have something to
copy over. (There are no pointers to alternate places to
get copies that I know of. One can find copies in the
build tree when one builds from source locally. So waiting
is not really required for that context.)

Yea, I have a branch tha= t has an 'installboot' target that updates the boot
loader regardless, but given the 50-odd combinations of ways we = can
boot, it's a bit bogged down.
 
This also make it seem that updating ZFS pool features
should wait until after a system upgrade that spans both
the loader and kernel being ready for the new features,
even if compatibility with other systems is not a worry.

Yes. ALWA= YS update your boot blocks before zpool update.
 
Do any of the system upgrade instructions cover such
relationships? Do any of the ZFS pool upgrade instructions
cover such? Does zpool or the like suggest such issues
when it reports there are new features that could be
enabled?

See above. :)
 
Part of what I expect happened here was contributed to by
a lack of being prompted to even think about the relevant
issues, leading to a pool feature upgrade that had not
been prepared for.

<= div class=3D"do_not_remove">Yea, so far 100% of the 'help, I upgraded and n= ow the boot loader
can't see zfs pool' is= sues have been 'I didn't upgrade my loader.efi
properly after zpool upgrade.' It was mandatory when we had the
=
OpenZFS rebase, but it is also necessary every= few OpenZFS
updates from upstream as nne= w features are enabled.

I'd love for someone to add this information to the h= andbook, and I'd
happily review such= an effort. I have time to do a brain dump, but not
to make it pretty / formatted for asciidoctor and won't for some= time.

Warner
 
=3D=3D=3D
Mark Millard
marklmi at yahoo.com



Interesting. 
Does the loader pass a hint to t= he kernel about which loader was used to load the kernel?

Regards,
Ronald


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