From nobody Sun Jul 10 21:09:58 2022 X-Original-To: freebsd-arm@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7D0C1CFAA8A for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 21:10:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Received: from colo1.denninger.net (colo1.denninger.net [104.236.120.189]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Lh05p3fGSz41Zm for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 21:10:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Received: from denninger.net (097-081-026-048.res.spectrum.com [97.81.26.48]) by colo1.denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F48211169 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 17:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.10.25] (D15.Denninger.Net [192.168.10.25]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D59294A72D4 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 17:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <512e33ac-1165-61c2-62b9-717a67676873@denninger.net> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 17:09:58 -0400 List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to ARM processors List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arm List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arm@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.11.0 Subject: Re: Partition layout of ARM SD card images Content-Language: en-US To: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org References: <1F42EED0-B39F-4E33-986A-FB70A3AA4362@cyclaero.com> From: Karl Denninger In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-512; boundary="------------ms010009010807030404090104" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Lh05p3fGSz41Zm X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=denninger.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of karl@denninger.net designates 104.236.120.189 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=karl@denninger.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.90 / 15.00]; SIGNED_SMIME(-2.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[denninger.net,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,multipart/alternative,text/plain]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arm]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14061, ipnet:104.236.64.0/18, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+,3:~,4:~]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[karl]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arm@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms010009010807030404090104 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------7ajbfWPEyo0TIK0QGGZzvuwI" --------------7ajbfWPEyo0TIK0QGGZzvuwI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/10/2022 16:05, John Kennedy wrote: > On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 04:26:02PM -0300, Dr. Rolf Jansen wrote: >> ... The start of the fat32 boot slice s1 (containing the u-boot) stuff is neither aligned to 1M nor to 4k, it starts on an odd base. The start of the BSD payload slice s2 and its size are odd as well. The padding of 57 blocks within s2 lets the UFS partition start on a globally even base, namely 104391+57 = 104448, which as a matter of fact is 4k aligned (104448*512/4096 = 13056) and 1M aligned as well (104448*512/1024/1024 = 51), however all this keeps looking strange. >> >> Are there reasons for this partition layout besides making it look more interesting? If yes, some insights would be good. > I think there are historical reasons, probably more with not "wasting" > space on small SD cards (~512 byte blocks). I haven't had it bite me > recently, at least, but I imagine the FreeBSD folks are trying (perhaps > vainly) to keep image count to a minimum. I think I was tweaking my > images from RPI2 and later to 4K and 1M like you are to line up with the > storage I had them stored on and the filesystems inside the partitions. From my experience it is an EXTREMELY bad idea to NOT align SD card images; these cards are notorious for suffering from severe write-amplification problems and if you want to kill them don't align your partitions.  Never mind serious performance problems you may run into on writes.  This is true for both SD and uSD cards, but particularly the latter (e.g for Pis and similar.) I align partitions for them in my Crochet builds on 4m boundaries (I do not care about wasting a few megabytes per *partition* or filesystem slice).  Yes, I know 4m is overkill (1m is probably more than sufficient for current cards) but I prefer not to screw with this in the future as card capacity continues to go up, and it both has and does, and I know of no way to get the *physical* block size that the controller on the card is actually using (what it presents to the interface is not necessarily what it uses internally.) I have a number of devices that boot from these cards and then run from RAM, and if I update something in the booted area (e.g. "mount -o rw /; copy something-from-here-to-there; mount -o ro /") the time for that second command to come back if I do NOT align the partitions is often tens of seconds .vs. a second or two if I do. That's a pretty solid indication that the system is waiting for the controller on the card to do the read/reallocate/re-write thing and its not real happy with what I just asked it to do. Thus I always align them. -- Karl Denninger karl@denninger.net /The Market Ticker/ /[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]/ --------------7ajbfWPEyo0TIK0QGGZzvuwI Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 7/10/2022 16:05, John Kennedy wrote:
On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 04:26:02PM -0300, Dr. Rolf Jansen wrote:

... The start of the fat32 boot slice s1 (containing the u-boot) stuff is neither aligned to 1M nor to 4k, it starts on an odd base. The start of the BSD payload slice s2 and its size are odd as well. The padding of 57 blocks within s2 lets the UFS partition start on a globally even base, namely 104391+57 = 104448, which as a matter of fact is 4k aligned (104448*512/4096 = 13056) and 1M aligned as well (104448*512/1024/1024 = 51), however all this keeps looking strange.

Are there reasons for this partition layout besides making it look more interesting? If yes, some insights would be good.

  I think there are historical reasons, probably more with not "wasting"
space on small SD cards (~512 byte blocks).  I haven't had it bite me
recently, at least, but I imagine the FreeBSD folks are trying (perhaps
vainly) to keep image count to a minimum.  I think I was tweaking my
images from RPI2 and later to 4K and 1M like you are to line up with the
storage I had them stored on and the filesystems inside the partitions.

From my experience it is an EXTREMELY bad idea to NOT align SD card images; these cards are notorious for suffering from severe write-amplification problems and if you want to kill them don't align your partitions.  Never mind serious performance problems you may run into on writes.  This is true for both SD and uSD cards, but particularly the latter (e.g for Pis and similar.)

I align partitions for them in my Crochet builds on 4m boundaries (I do not care about wasting a few megabytes per *partition* or filesystem slice).  Yes, I know 4m is overkill (1m is probably more than sufficient for current cards) but I prefer not to screw with this in the future as card capacity continues to go up, and it both has and does, and I know of no way to get the *physical* block size that the controller on the card is actually using (what it presents to the interface is not necessarily what it uses internally.)

I have a number of devices that boot from these cards and then run from RAM, and if I update something in the booted area (e.g. "mount -o rw /; copy something-from-here-to-there; mount -o ro /") the time for that second command to come back if I do NOT align the partitions is often tens of seconds .vs. a second or two if I do.

That's a pretty solid indication that the system is waiting for the controller on the card to do the read/reallocate/re-write thing and its not real happy with what I just asked it to do.  Thus I always align them.

--
Karl Denninger
karl@denninger.net
The Market Ticker
[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]
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