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Thu, 4 Nov 2021 21:18:43 +0000 Received: by kubenode510.mail-prod1.omega.ne1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID eed29ac99233d66a232d9d063fb2b4fe; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 21:18:38 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to ARM processors List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arm List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: FreeBSD 14: Poll armv6 deprecated or removed In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 14:18:36 -0700 Cc: Free BSD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <341A49EC-241C-43E7-8380-D2EE2F8C59F4@yahoo.com> References: To: tech-lists X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Hlc2L5f4nz3JMS X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] Reply-To: marklmi@yahoo.com From: Mark Millard via freebsd-arm X-Original-From: Mark Millard X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 2021-Nov-4, at 13:39, tech-lists wrote: > On Thu, Nov 04, 2021 at 11:53:18AM -0700, Mark Millard via = freebsd-arch wrote: >=20 >> Without one or more developers willing to keep ARM11 based RPi* = FreeBSD >> working as FreeBSD updates, the code will break. Other architectures >> have been removed for such. Folks that do not want to work on such = code >> do not want to have to work on it to keep FreeBSD building and = operating >> for other architectures that have active developmers/maintainers. >>=20 >> If there were active FreeBSD developers for ARM11 RPi*'s, the removal >> would have been unlikely to be proposed at all, even if the use was >> minor. FreeBSD is driven by the developer context directly, not the >> usage context directly.=20 >=20 > OK. I can understand that. No developers want to work on it so no > interest. That's straightforward, logical, bad for me but I can > understand it and work around it. But that was not mentioned by the = OP. >=20 > On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 09:44:20AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 >>> Given that the number of available and useful armv6 boards has = fallen >>> to almost zero, the time has come to look hard at armv6. >=20 > I'm objecting to this because "available and useful" is impossible to = measure. "Available" is going to be a very large number, because of > the number of sales and popularity of these boards, and that they are > durable. So stuff made years ago can logically be presumed to be still > in working order. Even if 0.1% of rpi1b users used freebsd on their > boards, it'll still be a big number. FreeBSD does not record anywhere = the context in which it is used. And "useful" depends on who is using it = for what and is an opinion. >=20 >> NetBSD supports a lot of systems that FreeBSD does not. That fact has >> never justified having support for those systems in FreeBSD.=20 >=20 > I'm not saying that. What I'm asking is the reasoning. >=20 > "we don't want to support it anymore" is a reason > "no devs are interested" is a reason >=20 > "the number of available and useful armv6 boards has fallen to almost > zero" is objectively false and so therefore is not a reason. And = because > it is not a reason then justifications following it will also be > incorrect. I'll note that: https://www.netbsd.org/releases/formal-9/NetBSD-9.2.html indicates: ARMv6 (Raspberry Pi 1 only) so NetBSD does not have general armv6 support, just support for the RPi*'s that are ARM11 based. (Another page mentions RPi0 and RPi0w examples as "expected to work", although needing FDT files. See: https://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/evbarm/raspberry_pi/ and its earmv6hf material.) The lack of a variety of sources of armv6 or ARM11 that NetBSD supports is likely a kind of property being referenced: even for NetBSD no other ARM11's are targeted. Basically, even for NetBSD, one has to be interested in supporting (some) RPi*'s in order to be interested in supporting ARM11. There is not much of any other ARM11 market for NetBSD (or FreeBSD). >=20 > I'm interested to know what NetBSD's reasons are in having tier-1 > support for armv6, but I'll ask that on their lists. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com ( dsl-only.net went away in early 2018-Mar)