From nobody Tue May 30 17:55:40 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4QW0Ry5s5nz4XtTf for ; Tue, 30 May 2023 17:55:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4QW0Ry5Q7Vz3nNs; Tue, 30 May 2023 17:55:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1685469342; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=w3x4gK+CBcWPAcuXdj1K2tRf0f1hGvVVhd8JG9xhkdA=; b=CJpTRklwwMtRnekt/9FIdwYYyzGLMDet0mu5yPJy9de8chC9FtHk8IETEG34Y+71ml23o5 phVrGvKIxAgLh08cMrhstbxi/rgMn8fQy5b0jGkD9u2fnrSqkFc+GJNm23lo3gIG60ZPAH akJPYTlf26yP3lEN6Zw5SUflbpVIRVtc4VrSYZYbvaB2kWAhU8j2o8OEEhh6RA2ORDHiEb fcKfP5PCyges4/MrQkQDyQKDs0Pi/ygtri1WYu0nmpWHjzpO+Rg9gs1enb5xYPEaemHmDE l0t8gsVyJcs3SB/teigvd0g92IhnD1YGRcYOPkFDmzRdMTy2fK8MqPXJlqMi1w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1685469342; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=w3x4gK+CBcWPAcuXdj1K2tRf0f1hGvVVhd8JG9xhkdA=; b=kR8afm8IEJxTAeXT1qgStgOr48BL803kKXoH0GNpCmzu8ouN/MJ2YIL+uDcl8Gq7IXjzh/ gIkVKrGj7aSWSH90g8qcGtX/N8U7cS3bZQ6h8XbDMLTzpXaH2hfE+O0odGNUtz+Yvh+KXd /Zki4OVYZJMrKi5vymcd2zwMWmn4YuTvQRf3oV5EDurOfzcJmgKslPzCmZ++iBt8HLSCpv ood5XePHAOGD+c5Sr21ntUaysD7ll7ztPWbDu1PgqlWINXUNQj7w7jBf03bISApwEzF094 x4EQcEr0oLh/lLvmWjtK1JnIZf44y+ZhtNtfpZoV1wXlP6bjj1VXY9fPqECthw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1685469342; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=r3oPF4RmLNww4iw1r8N3uBpcaWjHxJiNnyKKH+kYsICkKEChDXOFifGQuPGCYtTzMhkMQB DIdZ2D3nvr8+YjsPLfXY4H+ey6vaGBr+1Pniwk+zfwPQIeSg9efCFPepkmmMsi9ILfL++9 nOM1MmuPQAipd2GoV3WAKaA1ToghFWdhO08wgWt4IFThNhqFgWWCWAsokYbzVHFGxZI47H j03vF1HoIWJ0fxZQypzAiYI4fh8cSCif3PYy1OeOPLKuKv14RtMeRh5bqL8rZrhebROHgF CnZnRpwkDie50S9Sxs64wJd+IwsKtPlcfd92Wis7XimdVRR5f+cNaUi9al+J1g== Received: from [IPV6:2601:648:8680:16b0:b998:2010:344a:9cf2] (unknown [IPv6:2601:648:8680:16b0:b998:2010:344a:9cf2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jhb) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4QW0Ry0cwPzk3l; Tue, 30 May 2023 17:55:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <018790e3-3ede-2397-651a-69cc7567e903@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 10:55:40 -0700 List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Hans Petter Selasky , Tomek CEDRO , Peter Jeremy Cc: Warner Losh , freebsd-arch References: <6dd8a279-1ccf-ea66-9009-3865a7865e1a@selasky.org> From: John Baldwin Subject: Re: Future of 32-bit platforms (including i386) In-Reply-To: <6dd8a279-1ccf-ea66-9009-3865a7865e1a@selasky.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 5/30/23 7:36 AM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On 5/26/23 17:31, Tomek CEDRO wrote: >> Thanks Peter.. I know 64-bit is now easier to maintain both in >> software and hardware domain.. I just don't like "Enforced Changes >> Ideologies" so things that worked well needs to be "just deleted and >> replaced".. in most cases this is what destroys our current world.. >> its like history rewrite.. maybe marking code as "obsolete" / >> "unsupported" / "abandoned" just for anyone ever wanting to play with >> the code ever again rather than removing the code and leaving nothing >> for the future.. I don't know what are the plans but I think code for >> porting to other platforms should be preserved for various reasons >> even when obsoleted it will be solid source of knowledge 😄 > > Hi, > > I want to add, there are consumers of FreeBSD kernel code, like RTEMS > and QNX. If someone wants to maintain for example the Network stack for > a 32-bit platform outside of FreeBSD, how is FreeBSD thinking about > that? What is the plan there? Folks are more than welcome to use bits of FreeBSD in their own codebases, but FreeBSD is not obligated to maintain those bits in other codebases. The healthy relationship there is for those consumers to engage with their upstream (FreeBSD). > Instead of 128/64/32 -bit support it will be 128/64 -bit support > (thinking about CheriBSD)? CHERI is not full 128-bit integers (e.g. long and addresses are still 64-bits), so it's not quite as large a gap as 32 vs 64 (though is close). > If 32-bit CPU and platform technology patents are about to expire, then > keeping 32-bit support around could be a scoop for FreeBSD, even though > 32-bit PC platforms are a patchwork of technologies, going from ISA, PnP > to PCI and USB. MIPS patents are expired and we removed that, too. The code is also not going away, but the question is what is our consensus as a project on where we want to focus our efforts. -- John Baldwin