From nobody Fri May 26 17:25:46 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4QSWzJ1Z40z4CgsX for ; Fri, 26 May 2023 17:25:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4QSWzJ0sXQz46hh; Fri, 26 May 2023 17:25:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1685121948; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=mOtmFjW/4EDOZMP1LR7ZjCt+OnzD9y7Hda61OkgGC9Q=; b=cB4jILNyr/sypsZej+GGhJCHeE9q7lWepYMd5NFZtczuWw+KsqTXTctJCXtoC/u2dAPzo/ pf6pt76f4jTYpnB9PAXwmxRrsRQeg+/E8P5EsibLPPxGvUjfHjw3j5oePDd6t/5Pqgs0T6 YCpn6j5+qBEdi0sQh86Tt2UADFc4vQugR+zbXuTo/R1GALboXLNHq9yFloAMKfVgJVSykz 1g2UJ7D8TILXvkjBDKgD19k7cXR+siFvRPufNtRI4ez2jFtSROOP4imE8AQ1Lbks3Wbflv OsuCq3sWgdxlDWM6K+mKj1XH7mi0OtihWq8Dfmd9BrZ2/t4WnSQEh+c+F+I1kw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1685121948; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=mOtmFjW/4EDOZMP1LR7ZjCt+OnzD9y7Hda61OkgGC9Q=; b=OtzO4gtECVUZq+G0HUu/wU2CzWo/Tg1BRsCeWfceUJyuAF/f3EOLjH3SV+jLobCyfD9nBY yX9Ms/Mu6yXytgN2rDG5CLi8H/2hW1GwKIxlaymhenLzVMSKEfdMsVu8/zwwxOHFLeh6dp 4ifsM1U9xQipNxdiTQYZGZOp1pdk321It+r1EQYWnlEjZfdpCVf8sgfZioy4bIN19BGta4 tz4rc/SX/FSy2aCAd1GDTII+iBp0nOcwV1jbVONZtGgjk6duNH5zJN6lSA4VLWDk/lfyjA TAZ6bvaCkFYvoy4iS9lrwh8iA8hRE5P9Ut04VPzhd881+C1CmyjOZkjCtqG1CA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1685121948; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=A5IyPD+5f/4gU2yaABcU1o6w7Vvrvu2igyFrXi2pDQvvHFicE9e7Bm/eIdzsG4LQtxoBc+ jMoUQ2fVvzKk+5smSsRNAiHmw096ZdRG1j461WwOhA0u27HIw5+b1o+YUSRb9AR2MXzhAN RKtuBz9CNs5cXUZuLVk4XzigXNur0YOIrHBhtHaG3n0yFSZ+kFOaI5TCw512VytCtG44t/ yiAW5UdWi3KAGMXLyXGEsCEQgNsFF7Ml7BNjRxCwf2s+gXIRFRVwWsS6Q4iOnTZ/MB3ATx aIMQ9CWFQKjf/gGYFDy6+3E3WGcO/56RGxa/g7f4V6sbIyuFkcRH4MfjCGcqCg== Received: from [IPV6:2601:648:8680:16b0:28bd:79fa:758b:79b7] (unknown [IPv6:2601:648:8680:16b0:28bd:79fa:758b:79b7]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jhb) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4QSWzH3gTGz147q; Fri, 26 May 2023 17:25:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <9f41e5d5-2139-b6fc-c4f6-9ed7a9106a0c@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 10:25:46 -0700 List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.0 Subject: Re: Future of 32-bit platforms (including i386) Content-Language: en-US To: Tomek CEDRO , Peter Jeremy Cc: Warner Losh , freebsd-arch References: From: John Baldwin In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 5/26/23 8:31 AM, Tomek CEDRO wrote: > On Fri, May 26, 2023 at 11:21 AM Peter Jeremy wrote: >> On 2023-May-24 03:49:55 +0200, Tomek CEDRO wrote: >>> I saw that info too.. but are we going to allow Intel dictate future >>> of computers and supported platforms to The FreeBSD Project? >> I don't see that as the FreeBSD Project allowing Intel to dictate its >> future direction but rather more exidence that chip vendors are also >> deprecating 32-bit support. >> >>> I am >>> convinced that everyone will move to RISC-V pretty soon anyway :-) >> Note that FreeBSD doesn't support 32-bit RISC-V > > Thanks Peter.. I know 64-bit is now easier to maintain both in > software and hardware domain.. I just don't like "Enforced Changes > Ideologies" so things that worked well needs to be "just deleted and > replaced".. in most cases this is what destroys our current world.. > its like history rewrite.. maybe marking code as "obsolete" / > "unsupported" / "abandoned" just for anyone ever wanting to play with > the code ever again rather than removing the code and leaving nothing > for the future.. I don't know what are the plans but I think code for > porting to other platforms should be preserved for various reasons > even when obsoleted it will be solid source of knowledge :-) git rm does not remove history. The code will always be available, unlike issues some folks have raised with historical commerical software that is now "dead" as the owners of that software have gone away, etc. But also, FreeBSD has been purging support for older things for a while now. There are no more drivers for ISA adapters in the tree for example including PCCard. We as a Project do not have infinite developer resources and have to make wise decisions about where to invest those limited resources. (See also the alpha, sun4v, ia64, sparc64, pc98, and mips architecture support) -- John Baldwin