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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID f16853442b9c7d71de29142a313928b8; Sat, 03 Jun 2023 16:44:36 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.600.7\)) Subject: Re: Future of 32-bit platforms (including i386) From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 09:44:24 -0700 Cc: Emmanuel Vadot , freebsd-arch Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3D0FACB4-A356-4FB1-BB10-0232DEBB08C0@yahoo.com> References: <00E63ECC-2E7B-4C9F-9903-A8BD67278C00.ref@yahoo.com> <00E63ECC-2E7B-4C9F-9903-A8BD67278C00@yahoo.com> To: Warner Losh X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.600.7) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.07 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.993]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.984]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.40)[0.403]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.65.30:from]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.65.30:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4QYQhC4Dsjz3DSM X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On May 31, 2023, at 10:30, Warner Losh wrote: > On Sun, May 28, 2023 at 10:09=E2=80=AFAM Mark Millard = wrote: > Emmanuel Vadot wrote on > Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 06:35:55 UTC : >=20 > > . . . > >=20 > > I personnaly see armv7 in "degraded maintainance mode" since 13.0, > > nothing really intersting was added, no new SoC support even if = there > > was some interesting one that we could support, no new drivers for > > supported platforms. We even lost TI BeagleBone support because no = one > > really have the time to keep support up to date. > > I still have some little cute boards that I want to use from time to > > time but the lack of proper porting of new language (like rust and = iirc > > go have problems too) is making new software unusable on those = boards > > (you can't even make some "smart speaker" for spotify as all the > > spotify clients are in rust). > > IMX6 support is stalled since ian@ passed away and mmel@ isn't very > > active atm and they were both the most actives developers for armv7 = low > > level code. >=20 > One of the things for tier 2 is: > (from https://docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/committers-guide/#archs > 21.4. Tier 2 section) >=20 > QUOTE > Collectively, developers are required to provide the following > to maintain the Tier 2 status of a platform: >=20 > =E2=80=A2 Tier 2 architectures must have an active ecosystem of = users and developers. > END QUOTE >=20 > Is there an implication that, even for 14, the "developers" > part of that for armv7 has dropped off to the point that > tier 2 would reasonably be in question? >=20 > For the 14 branch, armv7 seems to be right on the edge. Some > bugs do get fixed, but some of the SoCs are so poorly maintained > that they don't work anymore (for whatever reason). So "degraded > maintenance mode" is likely apt for 14: it will still work, mostly, = but > many cool new things that people want, both in terms of languages > and new hardware support will be lacking in some way, shape or > form. Tier 2 is likely still the best tier to keep it at, imho.=20 >=20 One thing I was unsure of is how much the choice is driven by things as they are at around releng/14.0 vs. what things might be expected to be like around, say, releng/14.4 (a number of years later). It appears that changing tier status is normally avoided for the likes of 14.[1-4] . =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com