From nobody Thu Aug 03 21:36:48 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4RH2HV57SBz4V34S for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2023 21:37:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic308-55.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic308-55.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.68.31]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4RH2HT3kxlz3VQK for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2023 21:37:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b=VbNHEj5+; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.68.31 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1691098627; bh=7p2T2GtHLH7zJyjHw9JXqfFGl4OirNNXtndVrRzbhAk=; h=From:Subject:Date:To:References:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=VbNHEj5+veasL1DscvXJYwpe5P+tIc33WFaH4OnI4/Jpc/4UZtqcKiut+9sYMRb4puVJiPgLuuSfR2WOP4OWd/tR+u2cYIfswb3ZYyKUnPCItOSFLcQdNv8EvxxOBGzAK1D4HJdNuN0i7UBLz8T9mfZ7sx6CYa/JGSyjzbyaHv5Geu918Gaii1pmQ/RZt3rgcSJmq5o9IC8AEW+OG0wZV2nJQ1QkAwfaOeKui6VwJYEjumET9sR1ANh187hqp49LknSwLy4HA/5356nYsRTlKkwb4kEV9uPyhw4WEjFQnUYpIYEa9bLkq8mm1LVDzXYgCX2RTTzAcxClUcnuUO6Ffw== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1691098627; bh=wc6yBWSI8Wn8Si0KvMzmQiQpjv4gRKFLdvJislx5zES=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:Subject:Date:To:From:Subject; b=B0IpV1ayABigIWA2aUKhT0/oR73sMfKbwVUCrFmFvP3+mZTwU/pvi3oMAtKMNmfdHA55/6hEf3/isrqgIBGozyx8jnAFJo0iWDvtIeGaN8Tu5moqhv7xNyReezctDVweAesewKmSy72bUyu+q4DdBkUTDcFRpOnKt9OvZecuvHPu/0aAH1cFNzqVp0HzqyeW6VzbAzw4tq5boJxVTWvz/dZP3Ur+HdbX6z9oFgZBawysLMR9AKyQuruMjSkmaMG/s+IGYjjFDSLYQsUjWP2UQubUx7b3lhxHuPndHHKacTgupvJVqoiWF3v5a6VYhtjyv0c7Z+7SK/BMQxuan8MqfA== X-YMail-OSG: k0M2jLgVM1lS..1MuvLWOc_MHBqyyv.0Wtwkc1R6eZI6TT92aXTAqlslSh531Yu T9NPR8WVDb0LAU6dOsQzMCtGv4Y8GUXFaaLbLSBviFOwCkFK2d0JgoSRQwo3rw12q7LZOpyO6TlY 8i0fG4dhWEowYGhOwvSda0vkh4CxG6HTVtMd_tplQ.lckv71ybdFOmtVePrlZoyg6qoz1icl0KKw fI_idED7FrQHejS_nP.6Z_aXaA1XdWAytMPIWIywQl7gLyXHTMkaFeCsuBrTb4kkvQsZCEmYyBCc Kxhs6R6DBvhrBbwrziABEsUKcLKGzM7goBdyeoJM8rhwfFSLlKV9eD.xyP1SZhoSmgRaAem2XiI_ HBJDOx_1VbYWAN7eLx8J1m_Wc8kSGKeASca7zMZjtidRF.p06dIx4.cUefcjdxVP82Lyb2p8q7os hu8UF3.XL5ywAE4DfkAAPQ7UpIsM4HLOpb_zxsIuf7siZF3T.5Mzm7qS5LMjhUC6MYpYZQBS_eUg .d3XpY181spTJy_99GhYn97anwTTp9kKGLhOxLxYtZl2AeIlkjsGCAHTTCch8DeK3vstIWfiTHFR x2vpcIomdqPQcIg5ebstLGuwCJNXz0eKZO84OJKaWSQLkmDLbU4np.PYntUyC2RnC2g9Twe.DeSL bjeqTCFqQDtXxStHqCZS9Eg4XYfF19dptcpM8NmXVlXr.QyTcoA1UzCWuO.zcWU5xWazCbyBq8Ej je2r9c3gYZG4pqY5uTJd3SPxB8oOhq7nf0VxJL_YFUI3a6KS9oJUWTTVglX0Io0DU7tr0LEKPY_c ql46NSt4mPfNAq4uAYFSoVcD82v01suR3PLOkhcrWDnB_qIVeyjpXod.8OF_E0WJv3M1XcYgUCa0 l3.fwykffcIoKhK83Ms2MdOF3EBEt8UEqT9NApWop0Z3.hcJNxSz5jeO31RA5jV64eckhnaYdh54 jJ03cZUXqKAoM22zVYeY.72iYp2RnPr8zAnbnTMOkgt00_BqAgg285BNLvJtxoRA7qrk3ge7iiNH frtxLSx8strLx8TpmrtqO2Cdn9T4EBbA8Qy6OKgwKororI3weHHhqf3oUDYCSPcHIxdcnQPaybLK kZAdf.uYJ.znusjF2FOJKHJLa312qrYKbHtHZoB8ltUbzKedmEbh8kxyafI7PoVJtvYH5WsNn_fa 3s4JexQh3hpTBLSR.7DPS7tAJsAdRQpBmTth04PKeKIoz49LQJOVL2CLMdyqri_1nq9NsPs1SKyV GTXH_18IuGZPypkyD.03r0AfZK7LWiHY67FIo8MaAkZI3W9XZ1_z80nHUnrOm.w3TG8q0Bd53rDJ nLMoUmfhJdsGfA1dBRS_lYWz5_YfZzTgEhvd.ZySc9x3YoJePU_eRhKsSltizeH6Hk2oW_icaUKO _OMmG20mXxgGrXlmFLmwXlFopJVicoN729kwqBvpkvdgF9dbq8CSj.AqtUOvrVL9x7ZAcDUQxBR3 vByF9DMfcfZkcK67.S7QOnYEm_guny2zph9VCokFXP1i9DtxYftFLrndaNyF0zk6TK.Zm26uBRPo UKk40IFHR9ZoxlrNctT43JxlwUv6hbmoxTOSZjexwWbQ6axQmQMr18QykHv4k0JcbBek8kNm2ade Xob9cHJpDSrKiFLEcCbc.XlRFVzOsgfm0un5.wq47p.lObEEOQVaJeO9H_JVrhKLLL4j8TuzNQ7a xuNDYBJCC56DD1Zq4c_3mUPRfRaR7mJYvEi1xWT1RzwZ.eP_qIzyWfwGkxswyd9dNlYAbq7mRvWt UeVyFZB7bKe6oJlCtJaX.is8_UqSTpXiAIX_yVy6vQbrp92P1vA5SODr6.CD_Te207V2TtgJcVIy qYgBkB6okQbjVywPoatsY.Q0fb2vjU2c031R81bgGInN8JRn.gHrmqzto717XYTHw.SUXKKAw1cO OGFbCJg0toFTDgquUDQikCNpqigFR0UmEwyzCHz5rZ29SkQw35g0pRucRGjLe14wR8FYk_G6ZA4M JfB3Lt.C__OwhainBvpzxuIw.X5YxZvhFwXBgXeqITUWphS8BdEHcgTLZnzaBl4K_d_1XONJIPgc DoNUFiZD4PBMkwr3ivugNJw7YbRS4bzhAUrbu5KT9qZeIEvq.advYXhsJq_WOTDdj.MgtTsBpmUh OStZfTAGdGgsAuagsPTzOWY6hXq_PMvV9yfn2LXhPi3816p3tIynJgxuffPY4HTi5x2KndFKJQsE u5bHYTn6Yh8XciffzzQ.AhYlOVLW_NEdg9m4akqW3sLkoZo2KZzcDCsrmhnBlw2doCq6cyo.7ety j X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: ff6272f5-f8e4-46b6-b4fb-f9413242f864 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 3 Aug 2023 21:37:07 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-ne1-549c7f6c44-slvz6 (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c317ab7cc5ec64620350d6877892c82e; Thu, 03 Aug 2023 21:37:01 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.700.6\)) Subject: Re: Future of 32-bit platforms (including i386) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2023 14:36:48 -0700 To: John Baldwin , freebsd-arch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.700.6) References: X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.50 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.68.31:from]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.68.31:from]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim] X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4RH2HT3kxlz3VQK John Baldwin wrote on Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2023 19:57:08 UTC : > On 7/27/23 10:49 AM, shurd@FreeBSD.org wrote: > > On 2023-05-24 01:35, Emmanuel Vadot wrote: > >> On Tue, 23 May 2023 16:46:51 -0700 > >> John Baldwin wrote: > >> > >>> On 4/27/23 10:19 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > >>>> . . . >=20 > It's not just about make tinderbox, it is also about keeping platforms > viable. One big example is that we probably need to start supporting = the > use of rust in the base system in some form in the not too distant > future, but rust isn't supported on armv7 on FreeBSD (and someone = would > need to do the work to make that happen). I'm confused about the "isn't supported on armv7 on FreeBSD" claim: # pkg info rust rust-1.70.0_1 Name : rust Version : 1.70.0_1 Installed on : Sun Jul 16 21:37:58 2023 PDT Origin : lang/rust Architecture : FreeBSD:14:armv7 Prefix : /usr/local Categories : lang Licenses : MIT or APACHE20 Maintainer : rust@FreeBSD.org WWW : https://www.rust-lang.org/ Comment : Language with a focus on memory safety and concurrency Options : DOCS : on GDB : off SOURCES : on WASM : on Shared Libs required: libcurl.so.4 Annotations : FreeBSD_version: 1400093 build_timestamp: 2023-07-16T00:27:00+0000 built_by : poudriere-git-3.3.99.20220831 cpe : = cpe:2.3:a:rust-lang:rust:1.70.0:::::freebsd14:armv7:1 port_checkout_unclean: no port_git_hash : 8bcbc1e32c6c ports_top_checkout_unclean: yes ports_top_git_hash: f1271d14fb6f repo_type : binary repository : custom Flat size : 1.08GiB Description : Rust is an open-source systems programming language that runs blazingly fast, prevents almost all crashes, and eliminates data races. Some of its features: - Algebraic data types, type inference - Pattern matching and closures - Concurrency without data races - Guaranteed memory safety - Optional garbage collection - Zero-cost abstractions - Minimal runtime - Efficient C bindings WWW: https://www.rust-lang.org/ That is my own poudriere=3Ddevel style build but the 2023-Jul-27: = http://ampere2.nyi.freebsd.org/data/main-armv7-default/pe5b71726cc79_s92fd= 2f39e5/logs/rust-1.71.0.log is a log for a successful official build of a more recent version than my last build. Is it really some things that use/need rust that are the problem, not the rust port itself? If yes, could you be more specific? > This is already starting to be > a problem in ports because some 3rd party software (like = py-cryptography) > is requiring rust for modern versions, but we are currently holding = that > port back to cater to armv7. Platforms have to have enough active > developers supporting them to remain viable. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com