From nobody Sat Sep 24 04:37:54 2022 X-Original-To: dev-commits-src-main@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4MZGV60rc7z4cK4K for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2022 04:38:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-vs1-xe2f.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4MZGV60FHTz3NQw for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2022 04:38:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-vs1-xe2f.google.com with SMTP id a129so1849825vsc.0 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2022 21:38:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=R2lCkMOkt2bvZFDZ/FcxFjzIqJmRC42r4zoPuAVqOMc=; b=QRyVP+xX0hswFdGLoWmonE9QCfx8pWBdJJWBbwggXlK9Fhvp4XGqIMWrqrvCYZNKdw 7xCIZLR3+mtzAJsDqAHJVrPqFU9dxRh4ZqTXpgBI6LJ2X27Wu5/ywslIfmlfDVEsOdv8 2ajsiKUDFUMsn2qi/Jz+UExPqtJfaAhsMX/IG+RV0b0EYlv8aExXQh6PjuSK+ykFILy7 BGiWDuy7q7TIkDzsnPhDF9K4LKiifZXyE2hiPTiCCeK/qk/QI2SDhQ3P5WlbR4vYsCtr X7X9w275IeT9i1MfR6rLLxihLFjXiCjtV7rqmibCiKYZudutPjiNkihaljofQJlOzqqw 15HA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=R2lCkMOkt2bvZFDZ/FcxFjzIqJmRC42r4zoPuAVqOMc=; b=URwVjMWsdiYVZzBNDbJ4+l4cZuayVfpr1Ut+qD4Cl9nK++LxJOqClm37LeE+KaWhRr UXDk6/37kVVWfX2szp4U70lnP4zmXBObwC6FAswhJ4afDRuE0EiBwsVN86JhIKK0RSIg 2Jrj6CgZqD2et2VBJi2fTzvCblEs9F7GMNW7ucfzU1G7zesAQ1pciiiQ+7F0IHycqoi6 2nf143wg+EqzCG6OWeNEzovPWUKP3jj5RytQYMUjpGsGfcF4A1UacftSnA1U16LcjZhM +ZBJFujhVtPDdpg77NM/0lliNnZOCe/4pvYDKyk7aoHHBEAG5wNRmXzD5lT67c1YbMVz EGqg== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf23RjuYY9ZurwoGAujcT7tLCmwKvgJ/GNlHOn72Fki7Ft6mXZIC FLF9sCuRizt35/6//aHDGTStM+XA8zNSEckw+7DWnA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM4k5rLFL/YKk0+1f86miVFLurQXypJemU5BF+KmeHs6HYLcZ1M6e8ldCCdKWyBlNfOmBkPr59Su2kgbGSZ5164= X-Received: by 2002:a67:ac4c:0:b0:3a4:b881:4490 with SMTP id n12-20020a67ac4c000000b003a4b8814490mr98071vsh.42.1663994285126; Fri, 23 Sep 2022 21:38:05 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Commit messages for the main branch of the src repository List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/dev-commits-src-main List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202209211517.28LFHkoJ089471@gitrepo.freebsd.org> <20220921163951.17C77AC@slippy.cwsent.com> <8EC34FC3-F299-4B03-AD4E-83D062D0E9F6@karels.net> <5c162710def7eb94c032dfab73e9560e@lerctr.org> <6C27C573-601C-40F8-99C9-C964F9C2B3E2@karels.net> <20220924043513.5EB8223C@slippy.cwsent.com> In-Reply-To: <20220924043513.5EB8223C@slippy.cwsent.com> From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 22:37:54 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: git: 24e1824e4646 - main - Deprecate telnet daemon To: Cy Schubert Cc: Mike Karels , Gregory Byshenk , src-committers , "" , dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000046113b05e964dc19" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4MZGV60FHTz3NQw X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --00000000000046113b05e964dc19 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 10:35 PM Cy Schubert wrote: > In message , Mike Karels > write > s: > > On 22 Sep 2022, at 7:14, Gregory Byshenk wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 04:42:32PM -0500, Mike Karels wrote: > > > > > >> Ditto on the finger memory. And I tried this: > > >> > > >> mike@backup$ nc mail 25 > > >> 220 mail.karels.net Service ready > > >> helo backup.karels.net > > >> 500 Command missing Carriage Return > > >> > > >> telnet also accepts a service name instead of a port number (part of > t= > > he > > >> finger memory). > > > > > > I understand the finger memory. Sometimes at $job I still type > > > 'telnet' on machines that I know do not have a telnet client. > > > > > > But a 'nc -t ' should solve the problem you > > > show above. It does for me, in any case. > > > > It does not; the result is the same. The man page does not > > say anything about newline handling with -t; not sure what > > it is supposed to do. > > > > I also note that nc doesn=E2=80=99t pass control characters like > > ^D and ^C. > > > > Responding to an earlier message: telnet should remain in > > base, not moved to a port. > > Another idea that just occurred to me while reviewing some code is, should > we adopt the NetBSD telnet (and optionally telnetd)? Telnet is not the > most > interesting software to work on and is easily forgotten, not to mention > we're all busy working on other more useful projects. NetBSD somewhat more > active maintenance of telnet/telnetd would free up FreeBSD resources. I've > been toying with the idea of possibly net/netbsd-telnet and > net/netbsd-telnetd ports. But if we feel replacing FreeBSD telnet/telnetd > with NetBSD versions might free up some resources, it's worth pondering > and > discussing replacing what we have in src with the NetBSD versions. > > Though our contrib/telnet was a vendor import at some point. Where did we > get it from? Does that upstream still exist? > > Seems logical to me that for software in its twilight years we may be > better off collaborating with other BSDs to reduce effort needed to > maintain such software. > > Just throwing it out there for people to think about this weekend. > The usual question is 'is it a drop in replacement'? and are there FreeBSD specific features of telnet that we'd lose... I'm guessing the answer would be 'yes' and 'no' respectively... Warner --00000000000046113b05e964dc19 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 10:35 PM Cy S= chubert <Cy.Schubert@cschub= ert.com> wrote:
In message <FE029833-BB8D-4831-A707-891AD0DB518E@karels= .net>, Mike Karels
write
s:
> On 22 Sep 2022, at 7:14, Gregory Byshenk wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 04:42:32PM -0500, Mike Karels wrote:
> >
> >> Ditto on the finger memory.=C2=A0 And I tried this:
> >>
> >> mike@backup$ nc mail 25
> >> 220 mail.karels.net Service ready
> >> helo backup.karels.net
> >> 500 Command missing Carriage Return
> >>
> >> telnet also accepts a service name instead of a port number (= part of t=3D
> he
> >> finger memory).
> >
> > I understand the finger memory. Sometimes at $job I still type > > 'telnet' on machines that I know do not have a telnet cli= ent.
> >
> > But a 'nc -t <hostname> <port>' should solve = the problem you
> > show above. It does for me, in any case.
>
> It does not; the result is the same.=C2=A0 The man page does not
> say anything about newline handling with -t; not sure what
> it is supposed to do.
>
> I also note that nc doesn=3DE2=3D80=3D99t pass control characters like=
> ^D and ^C.
>
> Responding to an earlier message: telnet should remain in
> base, not moved to a port.

Another idea that just occurred to me while reviewing some code is, should =
we adopt the NetBSD telnet (and optionally telnetd)? Telnet is not the most=
interesting software to work on and is easily forgotten, not to mention we're all busy working on other more useful projects. NetBSD somewhat m= ore
active maintenance of telnet/telnetd would free up FreeBSD resources. I'= ;ve
been toying with the idea of possibly net/netbsd-telnet and
net/netbsd-telnetd ports. But if we feel replacing FreeBSD telnet/telnetd <= br> with NetBSD versions might free up some resources, it's worth pondering= and
discussing replacing what we have in src with the NetBSD versions.

Though our contrib/telnet was a vendor import at some point. Where did we <= br> get it from? Does that upstream still exist?

Seems logical to me that for software in its twilight years we may be
better off collaborating with other BSDs to reduce effort needed to
maintain such software.

Just throwing it out there for people to think about this weekend.

The usual question is 'is it a drop in repl= acement'? and are there FreeBSD specific
features of telnet t= hat we'd lose... I'm guessing the answer would be 'yes' and= 'no'
respectively...

Warner=C2= =A0
--00000000000046113b05e964dc19--