From nobody Sat Oct 23 12:45:36 2021 X-Original-To: dev-commits-src-main@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1DC1801CF2; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 12:45:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from mailgate.Leidinger.net (bastille.leidinger.net [89.238.82.207]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (P-256) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mailgate.leidinger.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Hc1Cz6zDsz3mwj; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 12:45:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p508d5160.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.141.81.96]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (P-256) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "outgoing.leidinger.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mailgate.Leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C541F296D8; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 14:45:42 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=leidinger.net; s=outgoing-alex; t=1634993142; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=jZngrhoBkyR1MUemWQCFcmPbCTrIjYapEGDo4e0Jg5k=; b=nZpvVktJelAh+dX5mgwHsdHXeJrw9zgyl+aWT7/nFQOIDOL9CzL928IYeEiiT/1rfy+L3r KQTxs7PFT2AZu/+2xhh0hAMrOhi4GI+BTWeNUBT+4vgx+hgRYE+Wp7nT7EtHqpVmHjQ5EB O0IJNUdp8QywnCCXQdrXp2w+Q6bHffoJh405q4wwuHROBaoIA/A9R4AOAF00suPAp/Oyyq QcrYXsCQmYPSeDbjaCMj7tfCDXs/JKq13OPiw2ThlS7B5lDxKuGizgY0wkKOJs2xodrwq4 90BgZ+rciJz+rvoRn1ueYUoEiuc2K37h3uy3/qErb96j0URKDL48cGfQAuyqaQ== Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF0CB62D5; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 14:45:38 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 14:45:36 +0200 Message-ID: <20211023144536.Horde.FrlbSo1SLHpgxnKlAIimdzS@webmail.leidinger.net> To: Emmanuel Vadot Cc: Benjamin Kaduk , "Rodney W. Grimes" , "Rodney W. Grimes" , gljennjohn@gmail.com, Gleb Smirnoff , Slawa Olhovchenkov , src-committers , dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org Subject: Re: git: 225639e7db68 - main - vt: Disable bell by default References: <20211021192020.6dcb95c1@ernst.home> <202110221704.19MH4FDn075994@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <20211022194717.8c94d2fa302339b55882497f@bidouilliste.com> <20211022225540.a4220cfddc96cc1e08cb5235@bidouilliste.com> In-Reply-To: <20211022225540.a4220cfddc96cc1e08cb5235@bidouilliste.com> Accept-Language: de,en Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes List-Id: Commit messages for the main branch of the src repository List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/dev-commits-src-main List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Hc1Cz6zDsz3mwj X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] Reply-To: Alexander@leidinger.net From: Alexander Leidinger via dev-commits-src-all X-Original-From: Alexander Leidinger X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Quoting Emmanuel Vadot (from Fri, 22 Oct 2021 22:55:40 +0200): > I honestly thought that this setting was something that you setup once > when you installed a new machine (which doesn't happens very often) and > forget about it, you know another "ah crap yes I forgot about this, why > do we have such insane default. Oh well now that I disabled it locally > I don't have to think about it and won't change the default". Instead > this time I didn't say to myself that I won't change it and I did. May I offer another perspective into this? Something outside of 0 and 1... I wonder if it is really the default of bell=on is what is crap, or if the bug Warner found is what makes it crap, or if the frequency of the current setting is what makes it crap (or the two last items together). Personally I dislike the bell, but not as much that I want to disable it. I don't mind to have it disabled (I simply enabled it directly in sysctl.conf even as I haven't updated to past the commit), as I think it gives usefull feedback. It may not give useful feedback in all cases where it goes off, but that's something we have influence on, don't we? What I don't like about the bell is the noise it makes. So what about changing the noise it makes to something more pleasant and asking if this is better and maybe acceptable to those which don't like the bell? I also think that disabling a feature you know it exists but you don't like is much more easy than to enable a feature you don't know exists. Basically I question in this email the problem you want to solve by disabling the bell. Does it really need to be disabled, or would a change of the sound and volume make it acceptable for you (you = all people which complain or agree to "the current one is crap -> disable it" .... which basically means we would need to make some kind of usability test what sounds better before deciding if it shall be disabled or not)? For me the issue with the bell would be solved if it sounds "better" and is less loud. I assume we could even make it configurable to some extend (override a hardcoded frequency and volume with a sysctl). Bye, Alexander. -- http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander@Leidinger.net: PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild@FreeBSD.org : PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF