From nobody Sun Oct 24 06:05:06 2021 X-Original-To: dev-commits-src-all@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A31B180AFD5 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 06:05:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ua1-x92a.google.com (mail-ua1-x92a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::92a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HcSHK5sWqz4rLQ for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 06:05:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-ua1-x92a.google.com with SMTP id e10so15771168uab.3 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 23:05:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6u3JcK7hwaZcxSnue6vl1bukfJ0HB9JAAD5AfbvF5eU=; b=DOBYE1gGpFFVIvOyQqGRw/NyQVBmIzjwLB1Ct4Uehw3JEz9bIGlJT79Ic84axD/uBE VC3YNmt22VVpdSJEgTSsURrYE36sjGUghMoTX8HXtba/mMGDGppcTf9Is4pCy2mtpOoz DZd+aCi8U/hBYbBsLlICKZIONDeBTmPCCsoBxTcRrwwxSWVFIMIwlAxBK4pqHbwZM5wG RpZMinAwsNyDdKeRO5DtYOT9LaFGPlnbl7j3GZY8fkoyZoEwedPYa2EjbjIU7ECv+QK9 hn8tQXtt3ZGxH2dxfbLGg7v4gotseqrQXs41x2FrRv7gCwwFBiRtSvryF2lJFBSp3wHG Ql6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6u3JcK7hwaZcxSnue6vl1bukfJ0HB9JAAD5AfbvF5eU=; b=dz+dZ2AimoDRd61nCuLOsoHZuqCCxza3iL/xEA/3jnvgDdQIigMsio0dS6oNQ0vOx4 bxKlBBPUr2UnTIuVTk6LMmROf34Y6rkKxtWqK5go2DV6ab5V7cJyMteV1cpopsfKeRJH G4zjZ6GK/8eolFNDW5Nto0TrEHp/E1sGVDsVVfO5CbAPyTagNV7H2yt/Loww6usgC1W/ 9cGX+3chNSxOZ4COFoDiwwEIKWAkvKvp/HpqizNhZR39GiX0ahdrGrgfJ33vosnPNMfb 9rFcp80zUKwrVbYK+0SXNgLsVWXPutDYNl54B6qNCcnrOT/9eCuosAzWavIuu4FOaA0k sSPA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5302g+i+WQ0yQMbEzj/ixzTmSkIKu6ZFYZw0Xd9ct8ZzWwLkdvao prfSW6mHyztYIRu+n0uHgvJdKBbEFAr9PDEry0W2RdXJ+sImIA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwVLLpY9dF7kjNpENFpRQ6XMR09ECqRg/h94MTYHNIWtcBUmz5gaD/S2y7nETD5IPjOZD/BnnGdtyAWbdZMdHA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:31ab:: with SMTP id d11mr80693vsh.42.1635055517237; Sat, 23 Oct 2021 23:05:17 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Commit messages for all branches of the src repository List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/dev-commits-src-all List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20211021192020.6dcb95c1@ernst.home> <202110221704.19MH4FDn075994@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <20211022194717.8c94d2fa302339b55882497f@bidouilliste.com> <20211022225540.a4220cfddc96cc1e08cb5235@bidouilliste.com> <20211023144536.Horde.FrlbSo1SLHpgxnKlAIimdzS@webmail.leidinger.net> In-Reply-To: <20211023144536.Horde.FrlbSo1SLHpgxnKlAIimdzS@webmail.leidinger.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 00:05:06 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: git: 225639e7db68 - main - vt: Disable bell by default To: Alexander Leidinger Cc: Emmanuel Vadot , Benjamin Kaduk , "Rodney W. Grimes" , "Rodney W. Grimes" , Gary Jennejohn , Gleb Smirnoff , Slawa Olhovchenkov , src-committers , "" , dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004b163105cf1307bf" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HcSHK5sWqz4rLQ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --0000000000004b163105cf1307bf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 6:45 AM Alexander Leidinger wrote: > Quoting Emmanuel Vadot (from Fri, 22 Oct 2021 > 22:55:40 +0200): > > > I honestly thought that this setting was something that you setup once > > when you installed a new machine (which doesn't happens very often) and > > forget about it, you know another "ah crap yes I forgot about this, why > > do we have such insane default. Oh well now that I disabled it locally > > I don't have to think about it and won't change the default". Instead > > this time I didn't say to myself that I won't change it and I did. > > May I offer another perspective into this? Something outside of 0 and 1... > > I wonder if it is really the default of bell=on is what is crap, or if > the bug Warner found is what makes it crap, or if the frequency of the > current setting is what makes it crap (or the two last items together). > > Personally I dislike the bell, but not as much that I want to disable > it. I don't mind to have it disabled (I simply enabled it directly in > sysctl.conf even as I haven't updated to past the commit), as I think > it gives usefull feedback. It may not give useful feedback in all > cases where it goes off, but that's something we have influence on, > don't we? > > What I don't like about the bell is the noise it makes. So what about > changing the noise it makes to something more pleasant and asking if > this is better and maybe acceptable to those which don't like the bell? > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D32619 and https://reviews.freebsd.org/D32620 might be of interest. They are only lightly tested at this point and may be buggy. But they let you set the duration and pitch of the bell, like we used to be able to do with syscons(4). There's likely some bugs in this area still, but it's a start. Warner > I also think that disabling a feature you know it exists but you don't > like is much more easy than to enable a feature you don't know exists. > > Basically I question in this email the problem you want to solve by > disabling the bell. Does it really need to be disabled, or would a > change of the sound and volume make it acceptable for you (you = all > people which complain or agree to "the current one is crap -> disable > it" .... which basically means we would need to make some kind of > usability test what sounds better before deciding if it shall be > disabled or not)? > > For me the issue with the bell would be solved if it sounds "better" > and is less loud. I assume we could even make it configurable to some > extend (override a hardcoded frequency and volume with a sysctl). > > Bye, > Alexander. > > -- > http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander@Leidinger.net: PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF > http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild@FreeBSD.org : PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF > --0000000000004b163105cf1307bf--