From nobody Fri Oct 22 20:55:40 2021 X-Original-To: dev-commits-src-all@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C50AE1805383; Fri, 22 Oct 2021 20:55:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from manu@bidouilliste.com) Received: from mx.blih.net (mail.blih.net [212.83.155.74]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mx.blih.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Hbc7g1Dm6z3DBv; Fri, 22 Oct 2021 20:55:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from manu@bidouilliste.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bidouilliste.com; s=mx; t=1634936141; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Xi02XAFA+D8sBuQaJVZN1TA0dAQkl/Nk9KSicA35r0s=; b=e/4Mm3aYZHrZESsVUB7XHkN4iouQdSP7Pfki9cQFKeyvq3Iyz8MArYRm9viHAvnoTCb4xT aX/pthNwmM4JIxwHaptCxMSjAnxCR7K1lAWTnMv3aqqdVyFRAwOrc/3vze1RnbowuNss7W aJRiJ/52OrEqZCnRSOpXuwl50Px4Ukg= Received: from amy (lfbn-idf2-1-644-191.w86-247.abo.wanadoo.fr [86.247.100.191]) by mx.blih.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id c5365e59 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Fri, 22 Oct 2021 20:55:41 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 22:55:40 +0200 From: Emmanuel Vadot To: Benjamin Kaduk Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , "Rodney W. Grimes" , gljennjohn@gmail.com, Gleb Smirnoff , Slawa Olhovchenkov , src-committers , dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org Subject: Re: git: 225639e7db68 - main - vt: Disable bell by default Message-Id: <20211022225540.a4220cfddc96cc1e08cb5235@bidouilliste.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20211021192020.6dcb95c1@ernst.home> <202110221704.19MH4FDn075994@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <20211022194717.8c94d2fa302339b55882497f@bidouilliste.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.0) List-Id: Commit messages for all branches of the src repository List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/dev-commits-src-all List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Hbc7g1Dm6z3DBv X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 13:19:54 -0700 Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 10:47 AM Emmanuel Vadot > wrote: > > > On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 10:04:15 -0700 (PDT) > > "Rodney W. Grimes" wrote: > > > > > We need to STOP these "I dont like the 20 year old defaults, > > > so I am going to change them to what I like and use" It is NOT > > > forward progress on making a better system, it is tilting at > > > defaults, very long established defaults, that should probably > > > just be left alone. > > > > It's not "I don't like", it's "We don't like". If we can't change > > FreeBSD default to what most of our users want I don't know why we're > > still working on this OS. > > > > **We** can change the defaults. But to know that we, as a community, have > consensus to make the change, we need to have a conversation. Having that > conversation before making the change seems like a much better [*] approach > than presenting the change as a fait accompli and waiting for dissent. > > In other words, I am okay with changing the default (I personally do not > feel a need for it), but am unhappy that there was no conversation about it > other than a phabricator review that was apparently only open for about a > day. > > -Ben > > * I have some other, more precise, adjectives I would like to use, but I > think the risk of them being interpreted harmfully is too high to use them > in this forum. I'm happy to talk more in some other forum if you want. If I knew that this change would have caused that much mails I would have send a mail to current or whatever before and left the review opened for more time. I honestly thought that this setting was something that you setup once when you installed a new machine (which doesn't happens very often) and forget about it, you know another "ah crap yes I forgot about this, why do we have such insane default. Oh well now that I disabled it locally I don't have to think about it and won't change the default". Instead this time I didn't say to myself that I won't change it and I did. -- Emmanuel Vadot