From nobody Fri Oct 14 15:31:54 2022 X-Original-To: dev-commits-ports-all@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Mpr3J2P9bz4fgx5; Fri, 14 Oct 2022 15:31:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from madpilot@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Mpr3J1ytCz48WY; Fri, 14 Oct 2022 15:31:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from madpilot@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1665761516; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=l2XlsZaBMMd1wOQlfq/Ewi20Z92/lR1kIo2KIQ0uV2E=; b=a3JwoSWUrYmuhLaVW3TsRaq3d2axk1neFzuM4IablqfgD+wGZE0dhtm/90JwsAzEhMuLJq 6c7oM4rmv93DTzLcB5eMt7mliOAF22vGVXoJ6iTPKUVu9emLvgwGtUDBUYgTjjlTHHEEAW p/oCezZ53V8O4vVSzZ8TE/JK1TFO1bLMbWqA3WgaWym4K9xDw8LMb/jw2EEOPp7zGXOUiu QjIN1fSN4DxkUWhjgR+p2yagz3hckLWYGkba/ibw+MYYu/S1UAzg1KKHRZHfdzepSGnIuB PocBsRqWVt5ASsaZWO+Vb7rHgbPHJ0nKMmElfSsu7uRT84ab0VByFuiiq/ud0A== Received: from [172.24.42.13] (host-79-47-131-203.retail.telecomitalia.it [79.47.131.203]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: madpilot/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Mpr3H4Kbpz1Dt4; Fri, 14 Oct 2022 15:31:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from madpilot@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2022 17:31:54 +0200 List-Id: Commit messages for all branches of the ports repository List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/dev-commits-ports-all List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-dev-commits-ports-all@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: dev-commits-ports-all@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.3.3 Content-Language: en-US To: Alexey Dokuchaev Cc: ports-committers@freebsd.org, dev-commits-ports-all@freebsd.org, dev-commits-ports-main@freebsd.org References: <202210131824.29DIO985022530@gitrepo.freebsd.org> <934dc4ad-91df-2376-63e7-b82be53ecdb2@FreeBSD.org> From: Guido Falsi Subject: Re: git: cf75f452e94a - main - sysutils/conky: Update to 1.14.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1665761516; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=l2XlsZaBMMd1wOQlfq/Ewi20Z92/lR1kIo2KIQ0uV2E=; b=jPANOTFHX/56ZVUoFXRxw1rvzzAxYuovgqAvd2kPsizgxFJDuwz3X0bbQ19t3mn1h/PlFY iI75b/EMQLlMgZcJ2g/LDCQ+5etTdLoecYIeh373HgJ/xhOwpVR3VzMymEL2TpxF+1ttQT 16+FZ/vHRr+vo2S+In/2FT+2aU5HayBnwtbhFOGyaNn+1zmMBjpdGLXg7fdc/VimTsyK2U TKbUtEHM7BA8P+3l32x2Ms3UFTllLWkleQC8nmN4Dh0WFQMGMUSbVq7ri+VwrxNSxxGuT2 Al5imi6TR72hbKnumF25eRkhfdYsfs+KDDcdNQ3YF2YSzeFKTXOjmanfQX/rJw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1665761516; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=aw4/7m4swrBDtBU5NQK7QAzgUvoMvwxDBB/xcr+49oD5dvxgAG3sj6Fxj05yL/LBPosAmK kBIuD4Xy6jwwXCV7Z1SYz8BJArpt3yrEoitgbcl8JpOPgiEavQ1YHhTdXuMUvFwxIrG9f+ QwWOC5Nn5tu0zAIR2t02xEMxwnxdhxXRXMFeWi7JZdWMQPKRGEdE1PJ11b7tdmoh1MK+b5 qN7Mqr5P1NuRnPUU8VnsbtHzZ6gnhyL3miAJ6vrJfV+Ao5cJn0r1pqk1POsK4vm5ur66T4 TWyc/rHnuwlThJ9rfPlGWI0LhHVtSj45FczUzdTunyjoT+lxeNfhif0GXAADtQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 14/10/22 17:18, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 05:01:46PM +0200, Guido Falsi wrote: >> ... >> Also, this is happening more and more. I think it is a lost battle. The >> rest of the world builds things using CI environments and similar >> things, and does not care for heavy dependencies, since it's not their >> problem to build them. We will see projects pulling in unconditional >> heavy dependencies with increasing frequency in the future (see rust, >> for the most evident example). Fighting it in the ports tree is wasted >> energy in my opinion > > I'd have to disagree here. Upstream's ignorance (or access to a lot of > free energy and beefy machines) is a bad excuse for us as downstream > packagers to force the same shit to our users. I can't afford nor would > I want to waste my time building something like Rust and even WebKit, so > always disable those in my ports or at least make them optional. > Generic theoretical part (about which I have nothing more to add): When possible and easy without disabling major functionality yes. If the requirement is a strict one, on which much of the software functionality depends it makes little sense to create such a knob. I am not against making things optional in the port when there already is a knob from upstream, or adding such a knob is easy and does not cripple the software. On the other hand if there is no knob already and creating one would require major development and/or cripple the software the knob would make no sense at all. More practical part (conky case): Upstream now uses pandoc to generate the software man page. I did not even know pandoc existed up to yesterday. I am definitely unable to cook up a substitute. In the ports tree man pages are not part of DOCS, but a base component of a port, so I can't wrap the man page generation in the DOCS knob. Any suggestions? Adding a pre-generated man page to the port? Not sure it's a good idea, I should check that hte man page gets generated the same on every release at least, and I'm sure at some point in the future I'll end up upgrading the port and forgetting to update the pre-generated man page. > People often prefer FreeBSD because of our huge and flexible software > collection. If they can't tune things down, we lose a selling point > as they can simply run flatpak/snap package on GNU/Linux distribution > of their choice. I'd rather see them use FreeBSD and enjoy our saner > dependencies (plus reduced carbon emission). I understand and agree, but FreeBSD does not exist in a void. The rest of the world is moving on. Our resources are limited. Refusing or resisting modern tools and techniques is wasted energy. For example one thing that annoys the hell out of me is seeing every software grow a dependency on some HTML5+js+multimedia rendering engine, often for very small gains. I will not be surprised the day something like less or ls will grow such a dependency. But I don't have time or resources to fight this. I do have time or resources to cope with the consequences though. -- Guido Falsi